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Bible-beater pilots



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 21st 03, 06:23 AM
Ian
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Anyone ever run into this before? What did you do?

All you had to do was get up and leave instead of agonizing over the
politeness of how to exit. Nobody forced you to sit there and listen to it.

It's clear you and your family have no moral guidance. I can see how being
raised a Catholic has got you out of tune with God, that's pretty common.
Sure, faith is a personal thing, but we're also commanded to spread the good
news. Tell others. That's what they were doing. You make it sound like
you were trapped because it makes them sound evil and you appear a victim
and we'll feel sorry for you. It's real funny to laugh at the apparent
hypocrites who want to tell you something important while sitting in a
casino. Well they are as imperfect as the rest of us. Who knows - maybe
they go to the casino just to evangelize because they know there are people
there like you who need to hear it. It's the message that's important, not
the person delivering it. Your rejection of the message does not diminish
its truth. Feel free to continue denying God, it is obviously your choice.
It is your unalienable right in this great country to have whatever religion
you want, including none at all. When you're standing at the final
judgement you're going to feel pretty silly remembering how you should have
listened, believed, acted, and provided some leadership to your family in
this most important area of their lives. Are you going to teach your
children about Jesus or let them wander in apathy ? So far, you are lost.
If you think your own inner self, your conscience, your innate sense of
right and wrong should be your guide, if you think its enough just to be a
good person, then you've got it all backwards.

Your prolific newsgroup posting over the last several years now has provided
some interesting insight into your personality. We know what you look like,
where you live, what you like to do, where you like to go, how you earn a
living. Isn't it time you quit worshipping the Pathfinder parked out back
and sought out some real meaning to why you're here ? Some real guidance in
your life ? Pick up the Bible and take another look. That's the real POH.
It's especially hard for smart, successful people like yourself to believe
that they need Jesus because it makes them accept the fact that they are
inadequate and incomplete without Him. Well get used to that concept. From
the janitor to the CEO and from the gambler to the hotel owner, that is
exactly what we all need. The only difference is in how long it takes each
of us to figure it out and make the single most important decision your
entire life. To accept Jesus or reject him. It's just between you and Him,
nobody else. What is it going to be ?


  #12  
Old November 21st 03, 06:30 AM
Chris Hoffmann
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Just praying at the home dinner table is becoming something of an
anachronism these days, but there are still families (like mine) who do pray
before dinner at restaurants. I can't say that that applies at McDonald's,
because we hardly ever have a sit down dinner at a fast food restaurant, but
if we bring home some KFC, yes we set the table and say grace.

I've had similar experiences - twice in college, once in a mall parking lot.
Sometimes it's enough to tell them my father is a minister (which he is),
but other times they do what your two gentlemen did. All you can do is
excuse yourself and go elsewhere. Some people take the "go ye therefore and
teach all nations" line a BIT too seriously. I think it's great that they
have placed such importance on the souls of others, but badgering a person
isn't the way to convert the masses.

As I said, Dad's a minister, and he would be appalled by behavior like that.
I never asked him why he of all people wouldn't appreciate zeal like that,
but then in all the bible studies I had as a kid, not once did Christ go
seeking out people to convert. They came to Him, and perhaps that's how it
should be.




  #13  
Old November 21st 03, 06:31 AM
Yossarian
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Jay apparently one of them has followed you back here. The bible is the
real POH. I looked but couldn't find the weight and balance section. Give
me a break.

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Anyone ever run into this before? What did you do?


All you had to do was get up and leave instead of agonizing over the
politeness of how to exit. Nobody forced you to sit there and listen to

it.

It's clear you and your family have no moral guidance. I can see how

being
raised a Catholic has got you out of tune with God, that's pretty common.
Sure, faith is a personal thing, but we're also commanded to spread the

good
news. Tell others. That's what they were doing. You make it sound like
you were trapped because it makes them sound evil and you appear a victim
and we'll feel sorry for you. It's real funny to laugh at the apparent
hypocrites who want to tell you something important while sitting in a
casino. Well they are as imperfect as the rest of us. Who knows - maybe
they go to the casino just to evangelize because they know there are

people
there like you who need to hear it. It's the message that's important,

not
the person delivering it. Your rejection of the message does not diminish
its truth. Feel free to continue denying God, it is obviously your

choice.
It is your unalienable right in this great country to have whatever

religion
you want, including none at all. When you're standing at the final
judgement you're going to feel pretty silly remembering how you should

have
listened, believed, acted, and provided some leadership to your family in
this most important area of their lives. Are you going to teach your
children about Jesus or let them wander in apathy ? So far, you are lost.
If you think your own inner self, your conscience, your innate sense of
right and wrong should be your guide, if you think its enough just to be a
good person, then you've got it all backwards.

Your prolific newsgroup posting over the last several years now has

provided
some interesting insight into your personality. We know what you look

like,
where you live, what you like to do, where you like to go, how you earn a
living. Isn't it time you quit worshipping the Pathfinder parked out back
and sought out some real meaning to why you're here ? Some real guidance

in
your life ? Pick up the Bible and take another look. That's the real

POH.
It's especially hard for smart, successful people like yourself to believe
that they need Jesus because it makes them accept the fact that they are
inadequate and incomplete without Him. Well get used to that concept.

From
the janitor to the CEO and from the gambler to the hotel owner, that is
exactly what we all need. The only difference is in how long it takes

each
of us to figure it out and make the single most important decision your
entire life. To accept Jesus or reject him. It's just between you and

Him,
nobody else. What is it going to be ?




  #14  
Old November 21st 03, 06:38 AM
Mateo
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Jay Honeck wrote:

Until yesterday I had run into religious fanatics and cult followers in
every walk of life EXCEPT aviation. I guess I had assumed that anyone smart



Ever look at the front page of an Ac-u-Kwik book?

  #15  
Old November 21st 03, 06:45 AM
John Gaquin
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Jay.....
Such aggressive proselytizing is rude at best, but not all that uncommon.
The fault, however, for allowing them to ruin your lunch is yours alone.
From your narrative, I'd guess you could have left that table having only
wasted five minutes.

There are many of us that were raised "hyper-catholic", to use your phrase,
but not many still carry such a large chip on their shoulder as you. You
really ought to learn to get by all that. It's pretty sad that you can
allow a couple of one-issue old guys to ruin a couple of days of your life.

JG

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message

Yesterday was clear, in the 60s (in November in Iowa!),



  #16  
Old November 21st 03, 06:58 AM
Ben Jackson
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In article . net,
Mike Rapoport wrote:
convince people that you belong to a less exotic religion.


I just tell people that I'm devoutly Myopic.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/
  #17  
Old November 21st 03, 07:05 AM
Peter
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John Harlow wrote:

Lol - it might behoove them to actually read that bible they supposedly live
by.

Next time tell them you do not wish to be required to hate your family (Luke
14:26)

nor be required to give away your airplane and all your other worldly
posessions (Matthew 19:16-21. See also Luke 12:33)
nor sell your daughter into slavery (Exodus 21:7-10)


Excellent. But considering the nice Mooney they had back at the airport,
Jay might also have reminded them of Luke 6:30 ("Give to everyone who asks
of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back") and
then made a request for the plane.

  #18  
Old November 21st 03, 07:08 AM
BTIZ
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when ever approached... be more zealous then they area.. be affirmative..
and try to convert them to your beliefs.. they'll run away.. or stop
talking..

yes.. I am "saved".. I don't attend a "Structured church"... but I do thank
god every day I fly.. that I have the knowledge and the capability to enjoy
his world.. and to see it in ways that no other man can.. and I lead a
respectful pleasant life...

my mother-in-law thinks I walk on water.. I just don't let her see my wet
sandals..

BT

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Wwfvb.262377$Fm2.278122@attbi_s04...
Yesterday was clear, in the 60s (in November in Iowa!), and -- best of
all -- our day off. With the kids in school, and the plane fully fueled,

it
was off to...where?

Prairie du Chein, sitting at the confluence of the Mississippi and

Wisconsin
Rivers, beckoned, with its beautiful approaches, favorable runways, and a
riverboat casino that would fetch us over to their excellent lunch buffet.
So, we pointed Atlas in that general direction, and puttered our way to
Wisconsin at a paltry 109 knots -- we were bucking a 35 knot headwind all
the way!

Luckily, above 3500 feet it was smooth as a baby's bottom. Calling PDC

from
10 minutes out, we asked them to call the casino's courtesy vehicle for

us.
To our surprise, they announced that it was "already on the way" --
apparently someone was there ahead of us, and had already made the call.

After a beautiful (if bumpy) approach (thanks to the wind hitting the huge
bluffs that line the river by PDC) I taxied up to the terminal, and parked
next to a gorgeous blood-red Mooney. It was immaculate, and the paint
really set it apart. Upon strolling inside, we discovered two older
gentlemen, one of whom owned the Mooney -- evidently the folks who had
called the casino. The courtesy van was already there, so we hopped in

the
back and all rode over together.

The usual introductions were made, and standard pilot talk ensued. It
turned out that the Mooney was a '67 model, and both guys were retired and
in their mid-70s. One had been a Sears store manager for many years, and
the other -- the owner of the Mooney -- was a successful real estate
developer. The conversation flowed smoothly, and the ride went quickly.

As
we disembarked from the van, we bid them adieu and went our separate ways.

In the buffet line, we ran into them again. While I was filling my salad
bowl, the old Sears manager asked me if we cared to join them for lunch?
Since we were sans kids, and they were mighty nice company, Mary and I
allowed that joining them was a grand idea, and proceeded to confuse the
wait staff by moving our beverages across the room to their table.

Once we were all seated with our food, the real estate guy announced that

it
was their habit to pray before meals, and asked if we might join them. I
frankly found this a bit odd, in a casino buffet, but to be polite we
affirmed the idea and bowed our heads while the Sears guy recited a prayer
about safe flying and good eating. Mary and I exchanged the old "uh-oh"
glance, but we still hoped that things would progress normally.

It was not to be.

As lunch proceeded, we began discussing Iowa City, and how terrific the
school system was, and they guided the conversation uncomfortably into

what
church we attended with our kids. Mary struggled bravely to answer that
question in a way that wouldn't offend these obviously religious men, but
there was simply no way to hide the fact that we didn't take them to ANY
church. I then proceeded to explain that we had both been raised
hyper-Catholic, and had been bludgeoned to death with our heavy-handed
religious upbringings. We were going to let our children decide their
religion when they reached the age of reason.

This was a mistake. I might as well have tossed blood into shark-infested
waters.

The next question, after a pause, was from the Sears guy, asking whether

we
had Gideon bibles in our hotel suites. I chuckled, and allowed that we

did.
I then went on to say how we'd even seen some competition amongst the
various religious sects in town, with the Mormons trying to get us to put
their "Book of Mormon" texts in all the suites, too. Still chuckling, I
remarked that we had to draw the line somewhere, or we'd have to put the
Koran and the Hindu texts in the suites, too.

This was another mistake. The Sears guy turned out to be a Gideon, and he
didn't warm to the notion that I was equating his King James Bible with

the
Koran.

Soon, both men were quoting scripture to us, chapter and verse, "proving"
how "easy" it was to be "saved" by the "true Lord, Jesus", as opposed to

the
heathen gods of the other religions. By now we were both growing
incredibly uncomfortable, and I had that horrible "this must be a

nightmare"
feeling rising in the pit of my stomach. Not knowing whether to bolt or
tell them to f*ck off, I just sat there silently, dumbly smiling at them

in
disbelief.

Then the Sears guy asked me if I knew how "truly easy" it was to be

"saved"?
I replied, quite honestly, "no". (ANOTHER mistake!) He then told me that

I
didn't have to close my eyes, nor did I even have to be in church -- I

only
had to say the following prayer along with him, giving myself over to

Jesus
Christ. He then asked, directly, "Would I be willing to say this little
prayer aloud with him?"

The heat in my face was really rising now, and I felt like everyone in

that
casino was staring DIRECTLY at the back of my head. What could I say to
someone so earnest, yet so incredibly rude? I smiled, placed my hand

firmly
on his shoulder, and told him that I most certainly was NOT going to pray
with him in a casino. I then went back to eating, trying to think of

some
way -- ANY way -- to escape this insane situation.

Mary finally came up with the answer -- she bolted, and went to the
bathroom! Abandoned, I was a helpless target for their religious zeal,

and
felt myself being carried along by their verbal diarrhea. There was

simply
no escape, and I politely listened while they explained to me everything
from everlasting salvation, to the tax advantages of tithing 20% of my
income to the church...

At last Mary returned, and announced that we were late to get back to pick
up the kids from school. Never had I been so grateful for bad news in my
life, and I quickly jumped up, shook both their hands, thanked them for an
"interesting" lunch, and headed toward the door, on the double.

Feeling like I'd just been delivered from the Gates of Hell, we told the
driver (the same guy who had picked us up) about the two bible-beater
pilots. He was as dumb-founded as we were, and apologized profusely, as

if
he had just forced us to eat lunch with a couple of sloppy drunks. He
allowed that their kind was exceedingly rare at the casino -- an

observation
that made us laugh out loud.

We then warned him to keep his mouth shut when he gave them a ride back,

or
risk wasting the entire afternoon, which got him chuckling -- until his
radio crackled to life, and the dispatcher announced that he had "Two more
to go back to the airport" when he got back.

His face fell as he knew that deliverance would not be his today... Then

it
was *our* turn to laugh!

Our flight home was fast (175 knots, thanks to that tail wind) and
uneventful, but our lunch had been completely ruined, and we could only
shake our heads in wonder at the audacity of these men. The gall and

sheer
tastelessness of their behavior had us recounting every detail of the
experience all the way home, as if we had just witnessed a train wreck.

We
realized (with a shudder) that these men were only one or two steps

removed
from the Islamo-Fascists we are currently fighting in the Middle East, the
only difference being their hair style and their dogma.

Until yesterday I had run into religious fanatics and cult followers in
every walk of life EXCEPT aviation. I guess I had assumed that anyone

smart
enough to get their pilot's certificate couldn't be so gullible -- and
rude -- as to go around trying to "save" perfect strangers. I still have

a
hard time believing that it wasn't some sort of a "Candid Camera" set up,
but I'm afraid they really, honestly thought they were doing the right
thing.

Anyone ever run into this before? What did you do?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"




  #19  
Old November 21st 03, 07:19 AM
Montblack
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For Cr....
For Cr....
For Cr...
For "crying out loud" Dave, snip your posts!

I couldn't say it, for I too was raised Catholic (I'm 5 out of 7 ...hoping
to hook up with 7 of 9 some day)


some thoughts and *snips* from Jay's post

After a beautiful (if bumpy) approach (thanks to the wind hitting the huge
bluffs that line the river by PDC) I taxied up to the terminal, and parked
next to a gorgeous blood-red Mooney.



No forward CG issues this flight? That's a rhetorical question - let's move
on to the buffet line.


As lunch proceeded, we began discussing Iowa City, and how terrific the
school system was, and they guided the conversation uncomfortably into

what
church we attended with our kids. Mary struggled bravely to answer that
question in a way that wouldn't offend these obviously religious men, but
there was simply no way to hide the fact that we didn't take them to ANY
church.



Try the line: I used to be a mackerel snapper, but traded my knee pads in
years ago. (Don't know why I think that's so funny, I just do)

Funny story about friends and attending church on Easter Sunday. Young
family was with *his* parents on this Easter morning. Young daughter pipes
up - we're going to Church because someone is getting married. My friends
were busted.


I then proceeded to explain that we had both been raised
hyper-Catholic, and had been bludgeoned to death with our heavy-handed
religious upbringings. We were going to let our children decide their
religion when they reached the age of reason.



Hey kids, First Day of Advent (the Sunday which is closest to November 30)
is still available!! All your friends will be there.


Mary finally came up with the answer -- she bolted, and went to the
bathroom!



The answer was there, right in front of you - Buffet baby!!

All kidding aside, when I'm in that situation, I very politely (hedging my
bets) thank them for their interest in my soul, and then excuse myself,
unless they want to talk about something else besides eternal salvation.

Next time try something like - Say, how bout them Packers? 8-8 just might
win the division this year. Of course they'll need a miracle to make it to
the Super Bowl. Say, you two fellas do any Angel Flights? Heavens to Betsy,
look at the time - gottogo. Bye.

Pilots are just like everyone else: Some have *found* God. Some are still
searching, and some have never lost him to begin with. :-)

Yup, they don't make Jews like Jesus anymore.

--
Montblack
(Former alter boy, working on my repressed memory skills - I think I might
have been touched, maybe once, by our priest ...six figure check please!!)


  #20  
Old November 21st 03, 07:54 AM
Lenny Toulson
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"Ian" wrote in message


It's clear you and your family have no moral guidance.
...there are people there like you who need to hear it.
...Your rejection of the message does not
diminish its truth. ...So far, you are lost. If
you think your own inner self, your conscience, your innate sense of
right and wrong should be your guide, if you think its enough just to
be a good person, then you've got it all backwards.

Isn't it time you quit
worshipping the Pathfinder parked out back and sought out some real
meaning to why you're here ? Some real guidance in your life ?
...The only difference
is in how long it takes each of us to figure it out and make the
single most important decision your entire life. To accept Jesus or
reject him.


No moral guidance? Needs to hear the message? Truth? Lost? Got it
backwards? Worshiping the plane? Real guidance? Most important decision?


Wow.

Just out of curiosity: What puts you in a position to judge his moral
guidance (or lack thereof)? I suppose you'll say that Christian morality is
the only correct morality, right?

Why does he *need* to hear the message? I suppose you like the idea of
email spam, too. After all, one has only to determine that we *need* to
hear the message to make it acceptable, right?

How do you account for the billions of "souls" who are not Christian yet
seem to live good lives? (By "good" I mean doing things that Christians
claim to do like charity, treating others with respect, living by their
version of the Ten Commandments.)

Tell me again how many people have died in wars based on nothing but
religion?

Christianity isn't the only game in town - and the other leagues have some
pretty solid players, too.

--
Lenny Toulson



 




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