How does a wet cloth really help (scientifically) to survive an airplane crash?

On Sat, 17 May 2014 04:24:48 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

Does alcohol on the wet fabric do anything different with HCN?

A quick searh found no reactions ot HCN with dilute or concentrated
alchols. I think it's mainly the fire risk.

Thanks for checking up on whether the alcohol makes the HCN
gas less reactive.

I didn't realize that a vodka drink could catch fire.

That makes sense, if it can.

On 5/17/2014 12:19 PM, Ann Marie Brest wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2014 05:39:45 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

The reason you want to get heck out of a Halon environment is that is
displaces the oxygen so you have nothing to breathe. (It works on the
"air" part of the old fire triangle).


And, specifically, it said that halon does *not* "displace the oxygen"
which is how carbon dioxide extinguishers work.


At least that part of my memory works.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 5/17/2014 12:22 PM, Ann Marie Brest wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2014 06:53:49 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

There were some system using carbon dioxide, and
those displace oxygen.

Halon works on the fourth side of the triangle,
sustained chemical reaction. Actually fire
tetrahedron.

Thank you Stormin' Mormon, for explaining that the proposed
supposition that halon displaced oxygen was not supported in the
literature.

I found a similar explanation to yours in this FAA book on
aircraft Fire Protection Systems:
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...a/ama_Ch17.pdf

It's pretty troubling that some people believe stuff that has
absolutely zero references in the literature that backs up their
claims.

I'm glad you're not one of them!

As I remember from my fire protection courses,
that (not displacing oxygen) was one of the
advantages of halon. Of course, the government
found it to be ozone toxic and outlawed it.

Put that on the list of "if it works, outlaw
it" along with DDT and machine guns.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 5/17/2014 5:02 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article op.xf0owsc22cx0wh@ajm,
RobertMacy wrote:


My thought processes regarding safety around aircraft fire warnings kind
of stopped paying attention to information after what seemed to me to be
the completely asinine instructions of 'take off your shoes in preparation
for a crash' and 'ok, now run through molten aluminum' types of
instructions. Why are you asked to remove your shoes? What basis is that?

The basis of that is that there have been instances where shoes have
punctured the slides, especially high heels. Although I do have to
admit, that may be left over from earlier experience.


Given a choice, I'd be the last man out. And I'd be
throwing shoes out of the plane, for people to put
on. Yes, I'm that kind of guy. Next, I throw my own
shoes out. Of course, I'd have to beat the stewardess
into unconscious, they are trained like ambulance guys
to be a real pest when you aren't doing what they want.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 5/17/2014 5:35 PM, Ann Marie Brest wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2014 15:21:09 -0400, krw wrote:

As long as you buy the water from their concessionaires,
they don't take it away.

Seems to me, an emergency kit for an airplane, could include
a wash cloth of a size sufficient to cover both your nose and
mouth, in a plastic bag.

The use model would be that you go through airport security
with the wash cloth dry.

Then, when you get to the gate, you soak it from a nearby
water fountain or bathroom wash sink.

What else would you put in the cabin-fire emergency kit
that makes sense (note that a smoke hood doesn't really
make economic sense, as outlined in the papers reported).

Might be best advice I've heard. Perhaps article of clothing,
which has plausible deniability. Pair of new socks?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sat, 17 May 2014 18:25:21 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 5/17/2014 5:02 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article op.xf0owsc22cx0wh@ajm,
RobertMacy wrote:


My thought processes regarding safety around aircraft fire warnings kind
of stopped paying attention to information after what seemed to me to be
the completely asinine instructions of 'take off your shoes in preparation
for a crash' and 'ok, now run through molten aluminum' types of
instructions. Why are you asked to remove your shoes? What basis is that?

The basis of that is that there have been instances where shoes have
punctured the slides, especially high heels. Although I do have to
admit, that may be left over from earlier experience.


Given a choice, I'd be the last man out. And I'd be
throwing shoes out of the plane, for people to put
on. Yes, I'm that kind of guy. Next, I throw my own
shoes out. Of course, I'd have to beat the stewardess
into unconscious, they are trained like ambulance guys
to be a real pest when you aren't doing what they want.

Considering that you're further endangering their lives, I don't think
many would blame them from kicking your ass.

On Sat, 17 May 2014 16:09:22 +0000 (UTC), Ann Marie Brest
wrote:

On Sat, 17 May 2014 02:06:44 -0400, micky wrote:

Why do you think all that
matters is if something is *immediately* dangerous?

You're joking right?

You didn't answer the question. What's wrong with you?

Read trader for details.

We're talking about an airplane crash cabin fire.

And, you're saying all our conclusions are wrong because your

All *YOUR* conclusions. Not ours. No one here has agreed with your
nonsense.

aunt got cancer 30 years after moving downwind from a factory?

I apologize, but I don't get the connection at all.

If you don't see the connection, you're blind, or intentionally blind,
or lying, or stupid.

On Sat, 17 May 2014 21:35:06 +0000 (UTC), Ann Marie Brest
wrote:

On Sat, 17 May 2014 15:21:09 -0400, krw wrote:

As long as you buy the water from their concessionaires,
they don't take it away.

Seems to me, an emergency kit for an airplane, could include
a wash cloth of a size sufficient to cover both your nose and
mouth, in a plastic bag.


Your chances of being in an airplane crash are minute, parts-per-million. Given
a crash, your chances of surviving are fundamentally low. Seems like something
not worth worrying about.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

On Sat, 17 May 2014 15:21:15 -0700, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

...snip....
As I remember from my fire protection courses,
that (not displacing oxygen) was one of the
advantages of halon. Of course, the government
found it to be ozone toxic and outlawed it.

Put that on the list of "if it works, outlaw
it" along with DDT and machine guns.


Yes, but *if* you already have the extinguisher, you're allowed to refill
it! So I bought three. One for kitchen, one for the car, and one for the
electronic lab.

On Sat, 17 May 2014 17:09:24 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 17 May 2014 21:35:06 +0000 (UTC), Ann Marie Brest
wrote:

On Sat, 17 May 2014 15:21:09 -0400, krw wrote:

As long as you buy the water from their concessionaires,
they don't take it away.

Seems to me, an emergency kit for an airplane, could include
a wash cloth of a size sufficient to cover both your nose and
mouth, in a plastic bag.


Your chances of being in an airplane crash are minute, parts-per-million. Given
a crash, your chances of surviving are fundamentally low.

A lot of people survive plane crashes, even the one where the big plane
was doing cartwheels. The number who don't survive but could have if
they had a survival kit is probably verrrrry low.

Seems like something
not worth worrying about.