Are "Popups" A Hassle?

File an IFR flight plan with OTP (VFR-on-top) in the altitude block, then
convert it to a "hard altitude" when you need to. Take off and fly VFR while
enjoying the warm fuzzies of constant ATC contact.

Bob Gardner

"skym" wrote in message
ups.com...
For the ATC guys: I frequently have departed VFR, but then do a popup
if needed. Frequently these are sortof foreseeable possibilities, but
often enough I have been able to proceed VFR all the way. I've often
wondered just how much of a hassle it is to ATC to have to deal with a
popup.

skym wrote:

For the ATC guys: I frequently have departed VFR, but then do a popup
if needed. Frequently these are sortof foreseeable possibilities, but
often enough I have been able to proceed VFR all the way. I've often
wondered just how much of a hassle it is to ATC to have to deal with a
popup.

If it is a hassle to the controller, s/he will simply deny the request. A
couple of years ago I overheard a few different aircraft attempt to get
pop-ups when the weather began deteriorating (this happened over central
Pennsylvania). The controller, presumably very busy, denied them all. One
announced that he then had no choice but to land at the airport right below
him in order to remain VFR. However, the risk of being turned down
shouldn't deter you from trying.

In my experience, I once had a controller act noticeably perturbed when I
requested a pop-up, but he honored the request so I didn't really care that
he acted cranky; the IFR clearance got me home. Other times I used this
tool, the controller was happy to help.

And, in response to obtaining an IFR clearance on the ground or in the air
at a non-towered airport in the US, I fly weekly from an uncontrolled
airport. Unless the airport conditions are IFR, I always launch VFR then
obtain my (already filed) IFR clearance in the air.

For some reason in my case, when obtaining a clearance on the ground, ATC
will most times clear my aircraft only to the VOR located at this airport.
This makes for a high workload as I climb out, circle back over the VOR,
and contact ATC, all while student pilots fly the traffic pattern right
below.

However, obtaining the clearance in the air, I always get cleared to my
destination, so the workload and collision risk (circling at a popular VOR
used for training) are lower since I can turn to my destination first, then
contact ATC for the clearance.

--
Peter
























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If I'm just trying to get over an overcast, I find that a "to VFR on
top" clearance is easier because the clearance limit can be within the
controllers airspace. If you ask to pick up an IFR ATC needs to
coordinate that clearance all the way to the destination, but if you
just do the "to VFR on top" using a nearby limit (VOR, intersection,
etc) he can do it on his own. I suppose you could also ask for an IFR
clearance just to the VOR but the couple times I've tried that the ATC
guys seemed to think it was very odd.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

If I'm just trying to get over an overcast, I find that a "to VFR on
top" clearance is easier because the clearance limit can be within the
controllers airspace. If you ask to pick up an IFR ATC needs to
coordinate that clearance all the way to the destination, but if you
just do the "to VFR on top" using a nearby limit (VOR, intersection,
etc) he can do it on his own. I suppose you could also ask for an IFR
clearance just to the VOR but the couple times I've tried that the ATC
guys seemed to think it was very odd.


If you cancel upon reaching VFR conditions you haven't operated VFR-on-top,
so why do you find that a "to VFR on top" clearance is easier?

If you cancel upon reaching VFR conditions you haven't operated VFR-on-top,
so why do you find that a "to VFR on top" clearance is easier?

Excellent question, and I would like to know the answer. If I ask for
an IFR clearance to the next way point just to pop up, I just get asked
what airport my destination is and then told it will take a while to
coordinate. If I ask for a clearance to VFR on top to the next way
point, the clearance comes right out. So, I agree, why is it different?

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...

Excellent question, and I would like to know the answer. If I ask for
an IFR clearance to the next way point just to pop up, I just get asked
what airport my destination is and then told it will take a while to
coordinate. If I ask for a clearance to VFR on top to the next way
point, the clearance comes right out. So, I agree, why is it different?


It's not different. It appears to be a lack of understanding on the part of
the controller. There's nothing wrong with asking for a clearance to a
waypoint, I have no idea why the controller would ask for your destination
airport. If you had wanted an IFR clearance to an airport I'm sure you
would have asked for that.

It's not different. It appears to be a lack of understanding on the part of
the controller. There's nothing wrong with asking for a clearance to a
waypoint, I have no idea why the controller would ask for your destination
airport. If you had wanted an IFR clearance to an airport I'm sure you
would have asked for that.

Steve, Could it be a lost comm issue? Perhaps controllers don't want
to issue IFR clearances with clearance limits that are not airports?
I'm still not sure why it would be different for VFR-on-top though.
-Robert

Thanks to all who replied. My concerns have been answered.

So, as the original poster, what did YOU mean by "popup"?

A) You filed an IFR flight plan but departed VFR and then, in flight,
contacted ATC to activate your flight plan

or

B) You filed no flight plan prior to takeoff. You departed VFR and
then, in flight, contacted ATC requesting an IFR clearance.

--
Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

B