Cherokee 140 - LASAR vs. Powerflow vs. Laminar Speed Kit

Hey Guys,

So my annual on 'Julie' (A Cherokee 140) is coming in substantially
lower than expected, and it looks like I'm going to have about 4k in
funds freed up that I had already budgeted to spend.

Of course, the sensible side of me says I should save the money for
Fuel... but what fun is that?

So... The situation is, new owner (first plane), considering mods. The
cowling is already apart and cylinders are off, and I'm wondering if I
should take advantage of the moment to install some goodies.

She already is getting the AMR&D 160 hp mod.

So... question is - which should I get?

I've heard lots of good things (mostly on here and in articles) about
the LASAR and Powerflow. They seem to do the same thing, Neither ads
appreciable weight to the aircraft, and both promise about the same
(reduced fuel consumption, better climb, more power). Powerflow is a
bit more expensive, LASAR is a bit newer (unproven?). Can any owners
comment?

The laminar Speed Kit is the lowest price (for parts), 2300 for fast
pants, airleron and flap seals, hinge fairings and wing smoothing...
I'm afraid that the wing smoothing is going to demand a repainting
though, and that's a bit more than I'd like to spend. But it is
another option.

A fourth option would be to spend the money on avionics (currently the
plane is a simple VFR, Intercom + KX170B and KT-78)... To be honest
though, I live out west, and I really think that aside from getting my
IFR ticket, I wouldn't have much use for cool panel toys.

If I want cool gadgets, I'll buy an ipod... I want my plane to fly- so
my first priority is on stuff that makes it do so better.

I find it interesting that all of these packages are about the same
price (once installation is included), all do about the same thing
(through very different means)... Which one would best help Julie
complete her mission as a light-duty, economical VFR cruiser?

Thanks for whatever input you may have (even the 'spend it on fuel'
camp)

Oh - I'll Add-

Living in the Bay- High Altitude Performance gains would actually be
tremendously appreciated - It would be nice to be able to reliably and
comfortably make it over the rockies/fly to-from Tahoe, etc... I know
this is pushing a Stock 140 pretty hard.

Also... Anyone out there try putting all 3 mods on a single
aircraft?... I mean - I've read the reviews of the powerflow/laminar
demonstrator plane... I wonder how such an animal would perform with
the LASAR system installed as well?

(I know this makes zero financial sense... 'just buy a faster plane'
and all those good things... I mean this only as a 'what if?'
question)

-Scott

it looks like I'm going to have about 4k in
funds freed up that I had already budgeted to spend.

Of course, the sensible side of me says I should save the money for
Fuel... but what fun is that?

At four dollars a gallon, and ten gallons per hour, I'd say that's a
hundred hours worth of fun. Once you decide on toys, pit them against a
hundred hours of flying. I say put the money in a kitty, and when you
feel like flying, but also feel sort of broke, take the money from the
kitty and get high.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 01:31:45 GMT, Jose
wrote:

it looks like I'm going to have about 4k in
funds freed up that I had already budgeted to spend.

Of course, the sensible side of me says I should save the money for
Fuel... but what fun is that?

At four dollars a gallon, and ten gallons per hour, I'd say that's a
hundred hours worth of fun. Once you decide on toys, pit them against a
hundred hours of flying. I say put the money in a kitty, and when you
feel like flying, but also feel sort of broke, take the money from the
kitty and get high.

Is there a Gilbert Shelton aphorism hiding in there?

Don

In article ,
Jose wrote:

it looks like I'm going to have about 4k in
funds freed up that I had already budgeted to spend.

Of course, the sensible side of me says I should save the money for
Fuel... but what fun is that?

At four dollars a gallon, and ten gallons per hour, I'd say that's a
hundred hours worth of fun.

The 160hp 140 doesn't burn 10gph. Figure 8 to 8.5 gph.
So it's about 117 hours of fun.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

In article . com,
"EridanMan" wrote:

So my annual on 'Julie' (A Cherokee 140) is coming in substantially
lower than expected, and it looks like I'm going to have about 4k in
funds freed up that I had already budgeted to spend.

Of course, the sensible side of me says I should save the money for
Fuel... but what fun is that?

Not much.


So... The situation is, new owner (first plane), considering mods. The
cowling is already apart and cylinders are off, and I'm wondering if I
should take advantage of the moment to install some goodies.

She already is getting the AMR&D 160 hp mod.

did you re-pitch the prop? When I modified my 140, I re-pitched
to the 60" prop, gained cruise speed and climb rate.

So... question is - which should I get?

Save it for next year.

[snip]
The laminar Speed Kit is the lowest price (for parts), 2300 for fast
pants, airleron and flap seals, hinge fairings and wing smoothing...
I'm afraid that the wing smoothing is going to demand a repainting
though, and that's a bit more than I'd like to spend. But it is
another option.

But it adds weight, taking away from the already constrained useful load

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Everyone that I have talked to that has added the Powerflow system,
loves them. I have a C-172F with the Lyc 180 hp conversion and I am
thinking the same thing. More hp, less fuel burn, GW insignificant.


EridanMan wrote:

Oh - I'll Add-

Living in the Bay- High Altitude Performance gains would actually be
tremendously appreciated - It would be nice to be able to reliably and
comfortably make it over the rockies/fly to-from Tahoe, etc... I know
this is pushing a Stock 140 pretty hard.

Also... Anyone out there try putting all 3 mods on a single
aircraft?... I mean - I've read the reviews of the powerflow/laminar
demonstrator plane... I wonder how such an animal would perform with
the LASAR system installed as well?

(I know this makes zero financial sense... 'just buy a faster plane'
and all those good things... I mean this only as a 'what if?'
question)

-Scott

did you re-pitch the prop? When I modified my 140, I re-pitched
to the 60" prop, gained cruise speed and climb rate.

You gained climb with a longer pitch? that sounds odd.

There is always the AMR&D Prop tip mod and repitch... I've heard mixed
impressions about that though...

Save it for next year.

But... but... I like my toys!

But it adds weight, taking away from the already constrained useful load

That's very true... Fortunately my bird is a '67 with no options (no
toe brakes, simple vfr avionics) so she's rather light as Cherokee
140's go....

Granted... I know I can eat through that extra window _really_ quickly.

In rec.aviation.owning EridanMan wrote:
SNIP

Scott,
I also have a '67 140. I have the following mods:
AMR&D: 160hp upgrade, prop tip mod, vortex generators
Metco Air: wing tips
Knots2U: flap, aileron and stabilator trim tab gap seals
Powerflow: exhaust
I also have stock Piper wheel pants.

The gap seal kit and Metco tips were definitely worth it. The Powerflow
exhaust is worth it if your old exhaust is on it's last legs. If its in
good condition, I'd wait.

--- Jay


--

Jay Masino "Home is where my critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

Yeah, I suppose there is a certain logic in holding back to upgrade the
Exhaust/Ignition systems until they need replacement (whenever that may
be).

What is your impression of the prop tip + repitching mod (especially
with the 160hp stc, which I already have).

Out of curiousity, what type of real-world numbers are you seeing from
your bird?

-Scott

Jay Masino wrote:
In rec.aviation.owning EridanMan wrote:
SNIP

Scott,
I also have a '67 140. I have the following mods:
AMR&D: 160hp upgrade, prop tip mod, vortex generators
Metco Air: wing tips
Knots2U: flap, aileron and stabilator trim tab gap seals
Powerflow: exhaust
I also have stock Piper wheel pants.

The gap seal kit and Metco tips were definitely worth it. The Powerflow
exhaust is worth it if your old exhaust is on it's last legs. If its in
good condition, I'd wait.

--- Jay


--

Jay Masino "Home is where my critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com