Why GA is Dying

Private wrote:


The threats to our freedoms do NOT come from outside our borders.

At all? Really?

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:54:35 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:

Emily, next time you should answer "I am taking pictures." (this ansewr
should be reasonable enough). And smile! He has the power and you're only a
citizen. And never speak up.

That is the nice thing about the US, the citizens have the ultimate
power at the end of the day.


this is nothing special. Many countries on our planet work this way - in
theory - just like it is in the USA.

Maybe not any one citizen in an encounter
such as this, but we can vote the rascals out.

see above.

Unfortunately, as one of
our early statesman said, and I'm paraphrasing, one of the problems with
democracy is that people will vote for things that in the end will
bankrupt the government. We all hate other people's pork, but vote for
representatives who will get us our fair share. Unfortunately, everyone
gets more than their fair share and we're going bankrupt because of it.

see above.

Matt

#m
--
Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider
that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough
space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize
this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bull**** nobody will read.

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Private wrote:


The threats to our freedoms do NOT come from outside our borders.

At all? Really?

External forces may threaten many things, but we ourselves are the greatest
threat to our own freedom.

I think Ben Franklin's (attributed) words said it best "Those who would
give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve
neither Liberty nor Safety."

Some other thoughts on the matter,

John Adams
Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of
your
liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency.
These, as
they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy,
chicanery and cowardice.

Justice Louis D. Brandeis
Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect
liberty
when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom
are
naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded
rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious
encroachment
by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

Samuel Adams
The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution,
are
worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them
against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance
from
our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and
danger
and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with
care
and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the
present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them
to be
wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out
of
them by the artifices of false and designing men.

Lyn Nofziger
One of the things that bothers me most is the growing belief in the
country that security is more important than freedom. It ain't.

Thomas Jefferson
Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it?
Or
will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom?
Material abundance without character is the path of destruction.

Vance Packard
The most common characteristic of all police states is intimidation
by
surveillance. Citizens know they are being watched and overheard.
Their
mail is being examined. Their homes can be invaded.

"Necessity" is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the
argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt, 1783

We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where
the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act
only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human
history, the stage of rule by brute force. Ayn Ran

Edmund Burke
"The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by
parts."

"Liberty has never come from the government.... The history of liberty is
the history of resistance...a history of the limitation of governmental
power, not the increase of it." --Woodrow Wilson

'Eternal Vigilance Is The Price of Liberty' used to mean we watched the
government - not the other way around.

"A conservative is a liberal that's been mugged.
A libertarian is a conservative that's been mugged by his government."

"There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people
by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by
violent
and sudden usurpation." James Madison

Private wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Private wrote:


The threats to our freedoms do NOT come from outside our borders.

At all? Really?


External forces may threaten many things, but we ourselves are the greatest
threat to our own freedom.


There you go, backing off already. As you should have. I have much
more freedom today than 50 years ago.

Newps wrote:


Private wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Private wrote:


The threats to our freedoms do NOT come from outside our borders.

At all? Really?


External forces may threaten many things, but we ourselves are the
greatest threat to our own freedom.


There you go, backing off already. As you should have. I have much
more freedom today than 50 years ago.

Well, I'm not 50 years old, but I have less freedom than I did 10 years
ago. Actually, I was a minor 10 years ago, so let's see I have less
freedom than I did five years ago.

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
Matt Whiting wrote:
It is obvious that you haven't yet learned to think on your own and
probably are still living with your parents.

You've now posted several personal attacks against Emily. She correctly
understood the law in one of her anecdotes and yet was attacked for
defending her rightful actions. I've posted elsewhere information that
supports her position. Your attack posts are self-referentially absurd and
I'm surprised you don't realize how this comes across.


First of all, "Emily" didn't in any shape or form correctly understand the
law in her self explained antics dealing with airport security. You are
completely wrong if you believe this.
Quite frankly, you "legal hair splitters" make my hair hurt! :-)
Secondly, duly appointed and authorized airport security has legal authority
to approach anyone at anytime, anywhere on the airport property.....period!
The manner of this approach is of course always subject to "hair splitting"
interpretation by people like you and Emily, but make no mistake about it ,
if you are on an airport property that is protected under law by an acting
authorized security agency, you have no "free or public zone" where your
"rights" of privacy take precedent over this authority. You may not like it,
and the security approach might not meet with your "delicate interpretation
"of your "rights", but like it or not, its perfectly legal.
As I said before, the system stinks , and there are good cops and there are
bad cops out there. But the fact remains; they are still duly authorized
cops, on their own duly authorized ground, and only people more concerned
with themselves than they are with security, start the type of idiotic
response to being approached that you and Emily are endorsing.
Dudley Henriques

If in 6 weeks time, that aircraft is stolen, and ends up getting loaded with
C4 or some nerve gas, and then crashed into downtown metropolis somewhere,
they'll be glad that security officer took the trouble to find out exactly
who had been hanging around the aircraft in the weeks before the event.
If nothing happens, the security guard can sleep well, knowing he's at least
done his job.
I don't own an a/c or even have a licence to fly one (yet!) but if I did, I
think I'd welcome the checks. If the kid had nothing to hide, what's the
problem with a quick 5 minute visit to the office to show an ID?
Crash Lander

--
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong!
"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
k.net...
This type of post is of course an opinion post and as such should be
respected in that context.
My personal opinion on this is that you are either going to have airport
security or you're not..period!

Bingo. Bothering somone taking pictures doesn't make sense when the field
has minimal, if any security. E.G. my home field. They don't ID pilots
or passengers - even transients. Presumably folks in an airplane are
bigger threats than people taking pictures, so why does the buck stop with
a kid taking pictures?

What I see with most not all of the "security" procedures we face today
is that they inconvenience the innocent folks, but would have no impact on
an actual threat. A great example is the TFR around a sporting event.
Anything with wings could penetrate the TFR. Unless it is the Superbowl
or World Series, there won't be anything in place to stop even a C-150 if
somebody wanted to use one to create mayhem. The TFR is eyewash.

Same thing with getting the ID of a kid taking pictures. It doesn't stop
someone from taking pictures. Nor would it stop him if he was up to
no-good.

That said, the point I was trying to make is that the FBO employee (or his
boss) pulled this "rule" out of his you-know-what. An excellent example
of how to drive off a prospective client. The kind of client who is sorely
needed by GA if it is going to survive another 50 years.

KB

"Dave S" wrote in message
nk.net...
Dudley Henriques wrote:


Interesting take on this thread... How many would have thought a more
"friendly" approach would have been to simply go out to the ramp (FBO
employee, or whomever was tasked to be ramp nazi that day) and socialize
with the photographer?

Ask him nicely about what he's doing.. comment on the nice weather... ask
him where he's from.. shake his hand.. get his name.. Ask him if he wants
to get flying lessons, maybe point out a place down the road that does
discovery flights, and offer to forward his name and phone number to
them.. Invite him to come sign a visitor's log in the lobby, which your
FBO keeps there for that purpose.. look at this ID there..

If the "visitor" gets evasive or otherwise suspicious, then play "bad cop"
and switch gears.. until then, with the friendly approach, you have made
the visitor aware that he IS being watched, while at the same time being
accomodating and promoting GA. Remember.. just about all of us started off
by going to the local field and hanging around for a bit (unless you were
born into aviation, or a product of the military).

Dave

Interesting suggestion Dave, and very valid, but I don't know many security
officers that possess the 'salesman type' persona to be able to carry that
off too well. True, that's a generalisation, but you must admit, a lot of
security guards might struggle with it.
Not saying sec guards are dumb or meat heads or anything, don't get me
wrong, just saying that they are generally or the thought that something is
always not right, and it's their job to make it right. Sort of guilty until
proven innocent.
Crash Lander

No tie down spots left tells me GA is not dying.
Crash Lander

--
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong!
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

Airport security is a mess and needs
reform badly. My point was simply that having it is necessary.

Maybe all airports should emulate the kind of security they have at
AirVenture Oshkosh. ;-)


I really miss the "old days".

I remember one night at OSH many years ago with Steve Whitman and a
whole gang of us sitting around under the wing of my airplane eating hot
dogs; drinking cold beer; and telling old war stories. No gates; no
cops; no security; only good fellowship and the reflection of happy
faces from the fire a few yards down the line in an empty tiedown
spot......YES!!!!!!!! There actually WAS an empty tiedown
spot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No way. I was actually believing your story until you got to the empty
tiedown statement... :-)

No kidding. Its the truth. Bonzo was in the hangar :-)))))
Dudley Henriques

"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
No tie down spots left tells me GA is not dying.
Crash Lander

Could be :-)
DH