Pitch vs. trim in flight phases

In a small GA aircraft, in which phases of flight will you normally use mostly
trim to adjust pitch, and in which phases will you normally mostly use the
yoke?

Mxsmanic wrote:
In a small GA aircraft, in which phases of flight will you normally use mostly
trim to adjust pitch, and in which phases will you normally mostly use the
yoke?

You adjust pitch and hold that pitch, then trim. The general "rule" is
nose attitude, adjust power, trim the airplane.

--
Dudley Henriques

Mxsmanic wrote:
In a small GA aircraft, in which phases of flight will you normally use mostly trim to adjust pitch, and in which phases will you normally mostly use
the yoke?

Good question for r.a.s.

You don't want to use the trim to adjust pitch, just to relieve the
control pressure. Electronic trim switches mounted to the yoke are a
bad habit waiting to happen; they're disabled in a lot of training
aircraft. Always remember "Pitch, power, trim."

The Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3A, states:
"The pilot must avoid using the trim to establish or correct airplane
attitude. The airplane attitude must be established and held first, then
control pressures trimmed out so that the airplane will maintain the
desired attitude in 'hands off' flight. Attempting to 'fly the airplane
with trim tabs' is a common fault in basic flying technique even among
experienced pilots."

It's important for the pilot to feel the elevator pressure whereas with
a trim tab you're delegating that to mechanical authority.

Also, if you get out of the habit of knowing where your trim is set, you
increase the likelihood of approaching an elevator trim stall in a
missed approach or go-around. This can be demonstrated pretty well in
MSFS2004--I think in the Mooney--by adjusting the elevator trim as if
you were in full-flaps landing configuration and then adding full power;
back-elevator trim will cause a radical nose-up pitch, exceeding the
critical angle of attack. To avoid elevator trim stall the pilot must
exert a great deal of forward pressure on the nose -and- retrim the
airplane, and it has to be brisk and smooth. Whether by hand or
electric motor, controlling it by trim is too slow.

-c

On May 16, 9:55 am, gatt wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
In a small GA aircraft, in which phases of flight will you normally use mostly trim to adjust pitch, and in which phases will you normally mostly use
the yoke?

Good question for r.a.s.

You don't want to use the trim to adjust pitch, just to relieve the
control pressure. Electronic trim switches mounted to the yoke are a
bad habit waiting to happen; they're disabled in a lot of training
aircraft. Always remember "Pitch, power, trim."

The Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3A, states:
"The pilot must avoid using the trim to establish or correct airplane
attitude. The airplane attitude must be established and held first, then
control pressures trimmed out so that the airplane will maintain the
desired attitude in 'hands off' flight. Attempting to 'fly the airplane
with trim tabs' is a common fault in basic flying technique even among
experienced pilots."

It's important for the pilot to feel the elevator pressure whereas with
a trim tab you're delegating that to mechanical authority.

Also, if you get out of the habit of knowing where your trim is set, you
increase the likelihood of approaching an elevator trim stall in a
missed approach or go-around. This can be demonstrated pretty well in
MSFS2004--I think in the Mooney--by adjusting the elevator trim as if
you were in full-flaps landing configuration and then adding full power;
back-elevator trim will cause a radical nose-up pitch, exceeding the
critical angle of attack. To avoid elevator trim stall the pilot must
exert a great deal of forward pressure on the nose -and- retrim the
airplane, and it has to be brisk and smooth. Whether by hand or
electric motor, controlling it by trim is too slow.
-c

Quick question, (it's been awhile since I've piloted)
is the trim (Cessna 152) in the center, right of the
pilot, and has zero mark to be set null in pre-flight?

Personally I had real friggin hassle with trim. I'd get
to 4000' set a course for x-country, maybe an hour
away, set cruise, then touch-up trim, to relieve yoke
control. Well it never really worked for me.
As soon as I thought I had it right, by Descent Indicator
(no jokes guys, women of the opposite sex might be lurkin)
would start wandering off zero.
My habit became, set Trim slightly down and use my
pinky pressure back on the yoke to keep my Descent
Indicator at zero, with an occasional glance so I could
enjoy the view and work nav.
Ken
PS: Kens Rule: Use your pinky to stop being InDescent,
and use the rest of your fingers anyway you want.

On May 17, 5:51*am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On May 16, 9:55 am, gatt wrote:





Mxsmanic wrote:
In a small GA aircraft, in which phases of flight will you normally use mostly trim to adjust pitch, and in which phases will you normally mostly use
the yoke?

Good question for r.a.s.

You don't want to use the trim to adjust pitch, just to relieve the
control pressure. *Electronic trim switches mounted to the yoke are a
bad habit waiting to happen; they're disabled in a lot of training
aircraft. *Always remember "Pitch, power, trim."

The Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3A, states:
"The pilot must avoid using the trim to establish or correct airplane
attitude. The airplane attitude must be established and held first, then
control pressures trimmed out so that the airplane will maintain the
desired attitude in 'hands off' flight. Attempting to 'fly the airplane
with trim tabs' is a common fault in basic flying technique even among
experienced pilots."

It's important for the pilot to feel the elevator pressure whereas with
a trim tab you're delegating that to mechanical authority.

Also, if you get out of the habit of knowing where your trim is set, you
increase the likelihood of approaching an elevator trim stall in a
missed approach or go-around. *This can be demonstrated pretty well in
MSFS2004--I think in the Mooney--by adjusting the elevator trim as if
you were in full-flaps landing configuration and then adding full power;
back-elevator trim will cause a radical nose-up pitch, exceeding the
critical angle of attack. *To avoid elevator trim stall the pilot must
exert a great deal of forward pressure on the nose -and- retrim the
airplane, and it has to be brisk and smooth. *Whether by hand or
electric motor, controlling it by trim is too slow.
-c

Quick question, (it's been awhile since I've piloted)
is the trim (Cessna 152) *in the center, right of the
pilot, and has zero mark to be set null in pre-flight?


It's also around the windows and other edges. Hope this helps your
understading what you are seeing on your computer screen.
Cheers

Ken S. Tucker wrote:


Quick question, (it's been awhile since I've piloted)
is the trim (Cessna 152) in the center, right of the
pilot, and has zero mark to be set null in pre-flight?

Correct. (Well it has a "takeoff position" which is more or less center.)

In the '74 PA-28R I rent it's between the seats and harder to see, and
takeoff position is about "a quarter-inch back" on the slot since
there's no visible mark. I don't like the trim-wheel there. The first
time I flew in the right seat and reached for the trim handle I cracked
my knuckle against the door.


-c

On May 16, 12:19 pm, gatt wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:

Quick question, (it's been awhile since I've piloted)
is the trim (Cessna 152) in the center, right of the
pilot, and has zero mark to be set null in pre-flight?

Correct. (Well it has a "takeoff position" which is more or less center.)

In the '74 PA-28R I rent it's between the seats and harder to see, and
takeoff position is about "a quarter-inch back" on the slot since
there's no visible mark. I don't like the trim-wheel there. The first
time I flew in the right seat and reached for the trim handle I cracked
my knuckle against the door.

Ok thanks.
I was ok with the location of the trim wheel, but the adjustment
was too coarse for me, but I could be a bitchy sissy.
My wheel was graduated, with a zero mark and did not quite
give the fine adjustment I wanted. That could be cables out
to the tail, I should have learned the mechanism!
Regards
Ken

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
:

On May 16, 9:55 am, gatt wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
In a small GA aircraft, in which phases of flight will you
normally use mostly trim to adjust pitch, and in which phases will
you normally mostly use the yoke?

Good question for r.a.s.

You don't want to use the trim to adjust pitch, just to relieve the
control pressure. Electronic trim switches mounted to the yoke are a
bad habit waiting to happen; they're disabled in a lot of training
aircraft. Always remember "Pitch, power, trim."

The Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3A, states:
"The pilot must avoid using the trim to establish or correct airplane
attitude. The airplane attitude must be established and held first,
then control pressures trimmed out so that the airplane will maintain
the desired attitude in 'hands off' flight. Attempting to 'fly the
airplane with trim tabs' is a common fault in basic flying technique
even among experienced pilots."

It's important for the pilot to feel the elevator pressure whereas
with a trim tab you're delegating that to mechanical authority.

Also, if you get out of the habit of knowing where your trim is set,
you increase the likelihood of approaching an elevator trim stall in
a missed approach or go-around. This can be demonstrated pretty well
in MSFS2004--I think in the Mooney--by adjusting the elevator trim as
if you were in full-flaps landing configuration and then adding full
power; back-elevator trim will cause a radical nose-up pitch,
exceeding the critical angle of attack. To avoid elevator trim stall
the pilot must exert a great deal of forward pressure on the nose
-and- retrim the airplane, and it has to be brisk and smooth.
Whether by hand or electric motor, controlling it by trim is too
slow. -c

Quick question, (it's been awhile since I've piloted)
is the trim (Cessna 152) in the center, right of the
pilot, and has zero mark to be set null in pre-flight?

Personally I had real friggin hassle with trim. I'd get
to 4000' set a course for x-country, maybe an hour
away, set cruise, then touch-up trim, to relieve yoke
control. Well it never really worked for me.
As soon as I thought I had it right, by Descent Indicator
(no jokes guys, women of the opposite sex might be lurkin)
would start wandering off zero.
My habit became, set Trim slightly down and use my
pinky pressure back on the yoke to keep my Descent
Indicator at zero, with an occasional glance so I could
enjoy the view and work nav.
Ken
PS: Kens Rule: Use your pinky to stop being InDescent,
and use the rest of your fingers anyway you want.


Descent indicator?


You're a moron.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote in
:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
:

On May 16, 9:55 am, gatt wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
In a small GA aircraft, in which phases of flight will you
normally use mostly trim to adjust pitch, and in which phases will
you normally mostly use the yoke?

Good question for r.a.s.

You don't want to use the trim to adjust pitch, just to relieve the
control pressure. Electronic trim switches mounted to the yoke are a
bad habit waiting to happen; they're disabled in a lot of training
aircraft. Always remember "Pitch, power, trim."

The Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3A, states:
"The pilot must avoid using the trim to establish or correct airplane
attitude. The airplane attitude must be established and held first,
then control pressures trimmed out so that the airplane will maintain
the desired attitude in 'hands off' flight. Attempting to 'fly the
airplane with trim tabs' is a common fault in basic flying technique
even among experienced pilots."

It's important for the pilot to feel the elevator pressure whereas
with a trim tab you're delegating that to mechanical authority.

Also, if you get out of the habit of knowing where your trim is set,
you increase the likelihood of approaching an elevator trim stall in
a missed approach or go-around. This can be demonstrated pretty well
in MSFS2004--I think in the Mooney--by adjusting the elevator trim as
if you were in full-flaps landing configuration and then adding full
power; back-elevator trim will cause a radical nose-up pitch,
exceeding the critical angle of attack. To avoid elevator trim stall
the pilot must exert a great deal of forward pressure on the nose
-and- retrim the airplane, and it has to be brisk and smooth.
Whether by hand or electric motor, controlling it by trim is too
slow. -c

Quick question, (it's been awhile since I've piloted)
is the trim (Cessna 152) in the center, right of the
pilot, and has zero mark to be set null in pre-flight?

Personally I had real friggin hassle with trim. I'd get
to 4000' set a course for x-country, maybe an hour
away, set cruise, then touch-up trim, to relieve yoke
control. Well it never really worked for me.
As soon as I thought I had it right, by Descent Indicator
(no jokes guys, women of the opposite sex might be lurkin)
would start wandering off zero.
My habit became, set Trim slightly down and use my
pinky pressure back on the yoke to keep my Descent
Indicator at zero, with an occasional glance so I could
enjoy the view and work nav.
Ken
PS: Kens Rule: Use your pinky to stop being InDescent,
and use the rest of your fingers anyway you want.


Descent indicator?


You're a moron.


Bertie


Hey Bertie, maybe Ken will set the bow planes for emergency dive and use
the depth meter to monitor his descent!

Gatt,

The Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3A, states:


Ah, another free source our local hotshot doesn't even bother to read.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)