Missing flight plans

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 08/04/06 16:33, Newps wrote:


Mark Hansen wrote:




Just to clarify, what I mean is can you show the regulation which states
that ATC is required to begin search and rescue operations if they lose
radio contact with an airplane that was on flight following.


Absolutely. Knock yourself out.


http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/ATC/index.htm


So, you're answer is "no". Got it. Thanks,

Exactly.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...

"Michelle" wrote in message
...
As to your question, it just seems so "unprofessional" and I think
unprofessional conduct by pilots is a big part of the reason GA has such
a higher accident rate than cars, and private pilots have the highest
rates among their pilot brethren.



How exactly Michelle will filing a VFR flight plan reduce the accident
rate in aircraft? As since you mentioned it, do you file a drive plane
when you drive a car?

Do you always put not only words but entire paragraphs in peoples mouths?

In any case, let's hear it from the real pros (the people that get paid to
fly): How often do you conduct a flight without a flight plan?

How many of you take off without a pretty through pre-flight of the
aircraft.

Here's the point: I never said, or even intimated that not filing a flight
plan caused a crash; the point is the attitude and approach that proc take
that the amateurs do not.

Michelle S.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 11:50:54 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote:


How exactly Michelle will filing a VFR flight plan reduce the accident
rate
in aircraft?

Not only will it not prevent a single accident,

Please point out where I said it would prevent an accident.

I don't see the value
of a VFR flight plan for other reasons in many cases.

Such as? Please!

Michelle

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Michelle wrote:

As to your question, it just seems so "unprofessional" and I think
unprofessional conduct by pilots is a big part of the reason GA has such
a
higher accident rate than cars, and private pilots have the highest rates
among their pilot brethren.

Just to clarify, in your opinion, not filing a VFR flight plan is
"unprofessional?"

"Yes", I think so...amongst other behavioral patterns.

Michelle

Michelle wrote:


In any case, let's hear it from the real pros (the people that get paid to
fly): How often do you conduct a flight without a flight plan?

The people who get paid to fly generally are required to fly IFR, so of
course they file flight plans. That argument makes no sense.

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/06 16:33, Newps wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:




Just to clarify, what I mean is can you show the regulation which states
that ATC is required to begin search and rescue operations if they lose
radio contact with an airplane that was on flight following.

Absolutely. Knock yourself out.


http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/ATC/index.htm

So, you're answer is "no". Got it. Thanks,





I think B will be of interest.



10-2-5. EMERGENCY SITUATIONS

Consider that an aircraft emergency exists and inform the RCC or ARTCC and
alert the appropriate DF facility when:

NOTE-
1. USAF facilities are only required to notify the ARTCC.

2. The requirement to alert DF facilities may be deleted if radar contact
will be maintained throughout the duration of the emergency.

a. An emergency is declared by either:

1. The pilot.

2. Facility personnel.

3. Officials responsible for the operation of the aircraft.

b. There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with
any IFR or VFR aircraft.

c. Reports indicate it has made a forced landing, is about to do so, or its
operating efficiency is so impaired that a forced landing will be necessary.

d. Reports indicate the crew has abandoned the aircraft or is about to do
so.

e. An emergency radar beacon response is received.

NOTE-
EN ROUTE. During Stage A operation, Code 7700 causes EMRG to blink in field
E of the data block.

f. Intercept or escort aircraft services are required.

g. The need for ground rescue appears likely.

h. An Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) signal is heard or reported.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Providing Assistance, Para 10-1-3.
FAAO 7110.65, Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) Signals, Para 10-2-10.

On 08/07/06 06:13, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/06 16:33, Newps wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:




Just to clarify, what I mean is can you show the regulation which states
that ATC is required to begin search and rescue operations if they lose
radio contact with an airplane that was on flight following.

Absolutely. Knock yourself out.


http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/ATC/index.htm

So, you're answer is "no". Got it. Thanks,





I think B will be of interest.

But the assertion I was questioning was with regard to the loss of radio
communications only. Not coms *and* radar. Paragraph 'B' you quote (below)
is for the loss of *both* comms *and* radar contact.




10-2-5. EMERGENCY SITUATIONS

Consider that an aircraft emergency exists and inform the RCC or ARTCC and
alert the appropriate DF facility when:

NOTE-
1. USAF facilities are only required to notify the ARTCC.

2. The requirement to alert DF facilities may be deleted if radar contact
will be maintained throughout the duration of the emergency.

a. An emergency is declared by either:

1. The pilot.

2. Facility personnel.

3. Officials responsible for the operation of the aircraft.

b. There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with
any IFR or VFR aircraft.

c. Reports indicate it has made a forced landing, is about to do so, or its
operating efficiency is so impaired that a forced landing will be necessary.

d. Reports indicate the crew has abandoned the aircraft or is about to do
so.

e. An emergency radar beacon response is received.

NOTE-
EN ROUTE. During Stage A operation, Code 7700 causes EMRG to blink in field
E of the data block.

f. Intercept or escort aircraft services are required.

g. The need for ground rescue appears likely.

h. An Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) signal is heard or reported.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Providing Assistance, Para 10-1-3.
FAAO 7110.65, Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) Signals, Para 10-2-10.





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen writes:

Actually, ATC is not required to maintain communications with you,
and if you suddenly disappear, they may assume you just went off-
frequency and shut off your transponder (or had a power failure,
etc.). I don't see why they would begin a search and rescue in
this case.

And yet they do. What's up with that?

--kyler

Kyler Laird wrote:
Mark Hansen writes:

Actually, ATC is not required to maintain communications with you,
and if you suddenly disappear, they may assume you just went off-
frequency and shut off your transponder (or had a power failure,
etc.). I don't see why they would begin a search and rescue in
this case.

And yet they do.

Not always.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote:
[...]
10-2-5. EMERGENCY SITUATIONS
[...]
b. There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with
any IFR or VFR aircraft.
[...]

I think I'm having a déjà-vu. Check Msg-Id
and Mark's answer to it.

But I'm glad I'm not the only one who got lost in the course of this
conversation.

Anno.