Why no Cannons on Police Helicopters?

I know exactly what I am talking about. The NRA types need to diss the
police to justify their need for weapons. They do it all the time. It
makes the sane gun owners look bad. GOA types are worse. [GOA = Gone
On Arrival]

Hey Miso,
You better check your facts, I did not dis the cops, just stating facts, the
average cops knows nothing bout the arms they carry, have barely enough
training in how to use them, and have the worse hit to rounds fired in a stress
fire situation. There is a reason cops carry hi-cap magazines, they need them
to hit anything. The average citizen that carries for protection, in a stress
fire situation, hits thier target more often, using fewer shots fired. The
average citizen knows more about firearms than the cop on street. I had to
explain to a cop once on how to clear and safe a model 1911 .45 automatic, a
gun that has only been in continous production since lets see, 1911.

Now about me and the cops, I ride with the current World Champion Motorcycle
Drill Team, one of our leaders is a Phx police detective, I have ridden with
the Mesa PD motors, The California Highway Patrol motors, Tucson Police Motors
I also have person friends in the Arizona Dept of Public Safety, and the
Glendale PD.
So I have spent more time supporting the cops than you have spent on tapping
on your keyboard.

I am awaiting your appology


Matt Gunsch,
A&P,IA,Private Pilot
Riding member of the
2003 world champion drill team
Arizona Precision Motorcycle Drill Team
GWRRA,NRA,GOA

"N329DF" wrote in message
...
Hey Miso,
You better check your facts, I did not dis the cops, just stating facts,
the
average cops knows nothing bout the arms they carry, have barely enough
training in how to use them, and have the worse hit to rounds fired in a
stress
fire situation. There is a reason cops carry hi-cap magazines, they need
them
to hit anything. The average citizen that carries for protection, in a
stress
fire situation, hits thier target more often, using fewer shots fired. The
average citizen knows more about firearms than the cop on street. I had to
explain to a cop once on how to clear and safe a model 1911 .45 automatic,
a
gun that has only been in continous production since lets see, 1911.

Speaking solely from personal experience (cop for 25 years), I never shot
below a 95 with any handgun I carried (S&W Model 28 357, S&W Model 29 .44
Magnum, S&W Model 4006 .40 cal) and usually shot a 98. I shot a 100% course
with the AR-15, open sights, over ranges of 50-200 yards, firing at
silhouette targets, every year for five years. These courses were Law
Enforcement Academy designed and approved, timed, and monitored.

The civilians I know who shot in high stress situations managed to hit a
relative about half the time, and that was because they were too sleepy to
duck. Two officers I know personally were engaged by a civilian who stood
at the top of an enclosed staircase in an apartment, and fired six rounds at
them as they climbed the stairs. He missed both officers. He was aiming.
(They were really p....ed when they got to the top of those stairs... deaf,
but pi...ed.)

Very rarely does the armed citizen who fires and misses ever tell anybody
about it. Their reporting standards are nothing like the reporting
standards used when an officer discharges a weapon. I would advise a bit of
caution when trying to compare data under those circumstances.

grin I remember a deer hunter who claimed to have killed a large buck
with a single shot. His cousin in another group mentioned in passing that
they had heard many rounds... "He must mean he only hit him once, I guess."

Don H.

(miso) wrote in
om:

I know exactly what I am talking about. The NRA types need to diss the
police to justify their need for weapons.

No,we realize that the police are not always around to protect us,so it
falls to ourselves to do so,and we want the best tools for the job.
Clue;the 2nd Amendment is NOT about hunting or "sporting purposes".

You still don't know what you're talking about.

They do it all the time. It
makes the sane gun owners look bad. GOA types are worse. [GOA = Gone
On Arrival]

Jim Yanik wrote in message
...
(miso) wrote in
om:

It never fails. Those who spit on the cops are members of the NRA
or GOA.

That's hilarious,considering the NRA -runs- many police training
programs,and many police are NRA members.
IOW,you don't know what you're talking about.


iespam (N329DF) wrote in message
...
Wouldnt a cannon on a police helicopter solve a lot of
problems for law enforcement?


Let's see, the average cop on the street can't hit a thing with a
side arm unless he fires 10+ shots, and you want to give them a
cannon ?
Matt Gunsch,
A&P,IA,Private Pilot
Riding member of the
2003 world champion drill team
Arizona Precision Motorcycle Drill Team
GWRRA,NRA,GOA





--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

"Don Harstad" wrote in message
...

"N329DF" wrote in message
...
Hey Miso,
You better check your facts, I did not dis the cops, just stating facts,
the
average cops knows nothing bout the arms they carry, have barely enough
training in how to use them, and have the worse hit to rounds fired in a
stress
fire situation. There is a reason cops carry hi-cap magazines, they need
them
to hit anything. The average citizen that carries for protection, in a
stress
fire situation, hits thier target more often, using fewer shots fired.
The
average citizen knows more about firearms than the cop on street. I had
to
explain to a cop once on how to clear and safe a model 1911 .45
automatic,
a
gun that has only been in continous production since lets see, 1911.

Speaking solely from personal experience (cop for 25 years), I never shot
below a 95 with any handgun I carried (S&W Model 28 357, S&W Model 29 .44
Magnum, S&W Model 4006 .40 cal) and usually shot a 98. I shot a 100%
course
with the AR-15, open sights, over ranges of 50-200 yards, firing at
silhouette targets, every year for five years. These courses were Law
Enforcement Academy designed and approved, timed, and monitored.

The civilians I know who shot in high stress situations managed to hit a
relative about half the time, and that was because they were too sleepy to
duck. Two officers I know personally were engaged by a civilian who stood
at the top of an enclosed staircase in an apartment, and fired six rounds
at
them as they climbed the stairs. He missed both officers. He was aiming.
(They were really p....ed when they got to the top of those stairs...
deaf,
but pi...ed.)

Speaking as an ignorant grunt, does it not scare you ****less that a
'citizen' is armed in the first place? It's hardly as if he's fending away
Indians from the homestead.


Very rarely does the armed citizen who fires and misses ever tell anybody
about it. Their reporting standards are nothing like the reporting
standards used when an officer discharges a weapon. I would advise a bit
of
caution when trying to compare data under those circumstances.

grin I remember a deer hunter who claimed to have killed a large buck
with a single shot. His cousin in another group mentioned in passing that
they had heard many rounds... "He must mean he only hit him once, I
guess."

Don H.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:07:47 +0100, Jim Doyle wrote:

Speaking as an ignorant grunt, does it not scare you ****less that a
'citizen' is armed in the first place? It's hardly as if he's fending away
Indians from the homestead.

Indians, government, it's all the same.

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com

Speaking as an ignorant grunt, does it not scare you ****less that a
'citizen' is armed in the first place? It's hardly as if he's fending away
Indians from the homestead.


well you are a ignorant grunt. I would rather have a armed populas vs a unarmed
one, I would rather be standing over a dead criminal that broke into my house
vs have cops standing over my dead body cause they could not get there in time.
A armed person is a citizen, a unarmed person is a subject


Matt Gunsch,
A&P,IA,Private Pilot
Riding member of the
2003 world champion drill team
Arizona Precision Motorcycle Drill Team
GWRRA,NRA,GOA

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:38:09 -0700, (Marc Reeve)
wrote:

Cartoon of a stretch of desert highway with the standard "Speed checked
by aircraft" sign, with an F-4 with CHP markings and a full bomb load
flying above.

I had that on a placard over my desk for years, except that the road
sign had an F-4 silhouette on it as well.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

On 18 Apr 2004 21:57:49 GMT, (JohnF73157) wrote:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that there is a law that prohibits
civilian aircraft, and that includes police aircraft, from having any type of
armaments attached.

Properly speaking, police aircraft aren't "civilian aircraft" in the
sense you mean. They're public aircraft, meaning operated by a public
agency, rather than private aircraft. The FAA doesn't regulate any
public aircraft except those dedicated to flying passengers.

NASA, a civilian agency, has operated armed aircraft fairly recently,
although that was only until we could get the guns out and return them
to the Navy, but we weren't breaking any law to do so. There are
private aircraft that fly with armament, doing testing for the
military, too.

Might you be thinking of the old prohibition of ejection seats in
private aircraft? That was about the pyros, I believe. However, it's
long gone and ejections seats are legal if maintained properly.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

"Jim Doyle" wrote in
:




Speaking as an ignorant grunt, does it not scare you ****less that a
'citizen' is armed in the first place? It's hardly as if he's fending
away Indians from the homestead.

Yeah,like there aren't any criminals running loose preying on ordinary
decent citizens. (ODC's) A person was shot twice with a small caliber gun
in the building next to mine,in my apartment complex. I heard the
gunshots,saw the crooks driving off,gave a report to the police about
it.There's a lot of people who successfully defend themselves with firearms
every year(in the US).

Even in the UK,Jill Dando,BBC commentator,was shot and killed on the London
street,in front of her home.George Harrsion was nearly knifed to death in
his home,even with high security.His wife was also wounded by the burglar.

Do you expect a elderly lady to defend herself against larger,stronger
young thugs unarmed?
Do you believe that police can be everywhere,to protect everyone,24/7/365?
It's not so.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

According to a programs about police helicopters on Discovery Wings. San
Bernadino County CA Sheriff has a policy of allowing their officers in
county helicopters to fire back. The policy was set after a bank robbery
suspect wounded a pilot causing the observer to land the copter. The
program stated that they were the only non-military agency to have such
a policy. They have to qualify (I forget the time period) with both
hadguns and small machine guns of a uzi type.


robert arndt wrote:

"Don Harstad" wrote in message ...
"Mutts" wrote in message
...

Wouldnt a cannon on a police helicopter solve a lot of
problems for law enforcement?

Is it possible to put a round right through the engine block
of a suspect fleeing and stop them from killing innocents?
Seems like that kind of accuracy is possible now isnt it?

When those guys were robbing the bank in LA, seems like
it would have been an easy shot to make from a helicopter
even without a cannon.

Whats up? public outcry or something?

What's up? Common sense. You can't have a helo gunship blasting the
Interstate or side streets, downtown, etc... with innocent people
standing around or driving. Even the smallest fragments from cannon
fire could kill somebody nearby in a car, sidewalk, looking out a
store window, etc...
Seems like you've been watching "Blue Thunder" too much!

Rob

p.s. However, hypothetically, it WOULD be interesting to see a Police
version of an AC-130 tackle a Los Angeles riot!