Libelle Camelbak stowage

A long while back somebody (Ian Molesworth?) mentioned "lashing a
Camelbak under the beam supporting the stick" in a Standard Libelle.

With the season visible on the horizon I'm wondering how he did that.
There's obviously sufficient space available under the beam and little
chance of fouling the controls because the stick linkages are are inside
the beam and the rudder cables run in plastic tubes attached to the
cockpit walls. My question is - how is the Camelbak tied down to stop it
getting where it shouldn't be? There are no obvious tie down points in
that area.

If anybody on r.a.s has done this I'd very much like to know the secret.

TIA
Martin


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Good heavens. Do I understand you to mean under the seat pan? Why on
earth would you want to take such a chance? "Little chance" is too
much for me. I put the water in a pouch behind the seat backor stuffed
behind my head.

Sarah

Martin Gregorie wrote:
A long while back somebody (Ian Molesworth?) mentioned "lashing a
Camelbak under the beam supporting the stick" in a Standard Libelle.

With the season visible on the horizon I'm wondering how he did that.
There's obviously sufficient space available under the beam and little
chance of fouling the controls because the stick linkages are are inside
the beam and the rudder cables run in plastic tubes attached to the
cockpit walls. My question is - how is the Camelbak tied down to stop it
getting where it shouldn't be? There are no obvious tie down points in
that area.

If anybody on r.a.s has done this I'd very much like to know the secret.

TIA
Martin


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone
else?!

The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed
to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to
work with gravity than against it!!

Gav

At 22:06 11 January 2007, Martin Gregorie wrote:
A long while back somebody (Ian Molesworth?) mentioned
'lashing a
Camelbak under the beam supporting the stick' in a
Standard Libelle.

With the season visible on the horizon I'm wondering
how he did that.
There's obviously sufficient space available under
the beam and little
chance of fouling the controls because the stick linkages
are are inside
the beam and the rudder cables run in plastic tubes
attached to the
cockpit walls. My question is - how is the Camelbak
tied down to stop it
getting where it shouldn't be? There are no obvious
tie down points in
that area.

If anybody on r.a.s has done this I'd very much like
to know the secret.

TIA
Martin


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head
next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here.

Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set
fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too
big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear
that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the
fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to
the battery.

-John

Gav Goudie wrote:
Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone
else?!

The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed
to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to
work with gravity than against it!!

Gav Goudie wrote:
Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone
else?!

As I said at the start, I'd seen somebody else claim he did this and I
want to know how, because there are no lashing points to prevent
anything placed there to get amongst the rudder pedals or disapear under
the pan during a winch launch. That doesn't mean I'd do it: I'm allergic
to loose stuff getting to where it shouldn't be.

I have a spar-top bag that will take the Camelbak and a fleece but
little else: some place to put the canopy cover would be nice too.

Is there an issue with the Camelbak dribbling down your neck or on your
pants (if you leave the tube dangling) if its behind your head?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

jcarlyle wrote:
I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head
next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here.

Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set
fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too
big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear
that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the
fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to
the battery.

Ouch. But, surely that means putting the Camelbak through the hatch
behind the spars? That makes my teeth itch: there are far too many
control runs back there for it to get tangled up with.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Leaving aside the fire or short issue, you need to consider what it
would feel like to be hit in the back of the head with an 80 lb sack.
Many of the first and second generation gliders have the "storage
shelf" level with the back of the pilot's head and nothing (no bulkhead
or other structure except a flimsy headrest) in between. A gallon of
water weighs about 8 lbs, and it's very possible to induce a rapid 10G
deceleration in an otherwise survivable crash (many texts talk about
survivable 20G pulses). 10Gs operating on 8lbs of water with a
straight shot to the back of your head or neck could put you in a world
of hurt.

At minumum, you need to have a system of tying the bag down to some
solid structure. If using the shelf, you'll probably need to run
anchor bolts down to the bulkhead surrounding the landing gear. LS,
for example, has very detailed instructions on doing this.

I've seen a couple of guys go to the trouble of mounting water supplies
behind the main bulkead (in front of the spars and out of the way of
the mixers/ control rods). They fill the supply through a tube. I
would worry about cleaning the container out periodically lest it get
funky over time, but I'm sure they've thought of this.

Cheers,

Erik Mann
LS8-18 P3






jcarlyle wrote:
I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head
next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here.

Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set
fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too
big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear
that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the
fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to
the battery.

-John

Gav Goudie wrote:
Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone
else?!

The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed
to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to
work with gravity than against it!!

I put the Camelbak just in back of my head, in front of the spars,
wrapping its harness around the spar safety pins to keep it secure.
Nothing else is there except for the battery, so there's no need to
fret about fouling flight controls.

My Camelbak will indeed leak if the tube isn't kept nearly horizontal.
When I put it in the plane I route the tube outside the cockpit, and
after I'm in I route it over my shoulder and then under my shoulder
harness. Once (but only once) I got out and left the tube dangling on
the seat. I discovered after I'd gotten in again that it takes a long
time for your pants and underpants to dry out... grin

-John

Martin Gregorie wrote:

Ouch. But, surely that means putting the Camelbak through the hatch
behind the spars? That makes my teeth itch: there are far too many
control runs back there for it to get tangled up with.

(from another message)

Is there an issue with the Camelbak dribbling down your neck or on your
pants (if you leave the tube dangling) if its behind your head?

I put mine right beside me on my right side with no
further tiedown (Discus B) standing upright and behind
the back rest. (I'm a little guy and there is enough
room for that; don't remember about the Libelle cockpit
arrangement.

Why not put it in front of your chest under the harness?
Again, a little guy solution.

At 19:36 12 January 2007, Jcarlyle wrote:
I put the Camelbak just in back of my head, in front
of the spars,
wrapping its harness around the spar safety pins to
keep it secure.
Nothing else is there except for the battery, so there's
no need to
fret about fouling flight controls.

My Camelbak will indeed leak if the tube isn't kept
nearly horizontal.
When I put it in the plane I route the tube outside
the cockpit, and
after I'm in I route it over my shoulder and then under
my shoulder
harness. Once (but only once) I got out and left the
tube dangling on
the seat. I discovered after I'd gotten in again that
it takes a long
time for your pants and underpants to dry out...

-John

Martin Gregorie wrote:

Ouch. But, surely that means putting the Camelbak
through the hatch
behind the spars? That makes my teeth itch: there
are far too many
control runs back there for it to get tangled up with.

(from another message)

Is there an issue with the Camelbak dribbling down
your neck or on your
pants (if you leave the tube dangling) if its behind
your head?

Were that I were little, Nyal - or at least littler! grin I should
have said before that I'm flying an ASW-19, it's Martin who's
interested in the Libelle libation setup.

That said, at first I did try putting the Camelbak behind the seat, but
found there wasn't enough room since I've got to have it all the way
back. I don't think I could put it on my chest after I've got the
parachute on, but then I haven't tried. Basically, I'm satisfied with
it in front of the spars, as I've checked my electrical system and I
make sure it's fastened to the spar pins so it can't become a
projectile.

-John

Nyal Williams wrote:
I put mine right beside me on my right side with no
further tiedown (Discus B) standing upright and behind
the back rest. (I'm a little guy and there is enough
room for that; don't remember about the Libelle cockpit
arrangement.

Why not put it in front of your chest under the harness?
Again, a little guy solution.