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#11
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Red V symbol (log file not valid) after OLC upload.
On Nov 24, 3:00*am, Max Kellermann wrote:
If they had a different private key, then VALI.exe would need to include all public keys of all loggers sold. *And you would have to update the VALI.exe each time the vendor generates new keys for new loggers he will sell, and each time somebody wants to have his logger repaired. *Then think about what happens when a pilot sends a logger for repair, how will inserting a new key into the logger work? *How will the existing VALI.exe on the OLC server get to know about this? While that would be technically possibly, and it would be possible to pregenerate thousands of keys in advance, I do not think any logger vendor has done this. Do you think they did? The vendors of IGC approved flight recorders are required to do this, as spelled out in the specification, which can be obtained here (unfortunately, the FAI web site is a bit wonky, right now): http://www.fai.org/igc-documents All flight recorders currently approved for "all flights" or "all badges and diplomas" have unique public/private key pairs for each unit. I, as a member of the IGC GNSS Flight Recorder Approval Committee, would like to see the algorithms standardized and the public keys openly distributed, but life is always a bit more complicated than it might seem... Marc |
#12
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Red V symbol (log file not valid) after OLC upload.
Marc wrote:
All flight recorders currently approved for "all flights" or "all badges and diplomas" have unique public/private key pairs for each unit. Thanks Marc, I must have missed that part of the spec when I last read it. Interesting, I wonder how the public keys are distributed to the VALI.exe files. Whenever I see such "security by obscurity", I fear the worst. Usually, this assumption is close to the truth. I, as a member of the IGC GNSS Flight Recorder Approval Committee, would like to see the algorithms standardized and the public keys openly distributed, but life is always a bit more complicated than it might seem... Too sad, that's a big chance that was missed. It's extremely cumbersome or impossible to validate an IGC file on a machine other than Windows-i386. Max |
#13
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Red V symbol (log file not valid) after OLC upload.
On Nov 23, 10:02*am, Cliff Hilty
wrote: Im still trying to figure out why any of the files have to be "secure" ! Security is an illusion. I thought the intent of the OLC was to promote more people flying and friendly competition. Still scratching my head with all of this regulatory crap. After all, we are all in it for the money and the girls right? If they want to cheat that bad let them. Its been my experience that the cheaters are found out and rightly ostersized out of the sport anyway. Just my .2 cents worth. And while Im at it that goes the same for badge and record flights. AFAIC KISS principal applies. What are we testing after all, how good am I at flying or following recording procedures. Jumping off the soap box now and flame sheilds on! CH I think OLC is losing their focus. They used to show one could use almost any GPS to record a flight. I own 3 Cam Nav 20's. I use the XC soar program to post with the blue "V" but found out the hard way last year that this is not valid for the League. We lost a lot of points due to this. I do have an SN10 so I guess I need to buy the USB adapter to easily download from it. I have also just spent big bucks on the PowerFlarm in order to be safer but also for the logger which is now not certified yet. Any one know if the PowerFlarm log will be useable by the time League starts for league scoring? |
#14
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Red V symbol (log file not valid) after OLC upload.
At 17:16 24 November 2011, LOV2AV8 wrote:
On Nov 23, 10:02=A0am, Cliff Hilty wrote: I have also just spent big bucks on the PowerFlarm in order to be safer but also for the logger which is now not certified yet. Any one know if the PowerFlarm log will be useable by the time League starts for league scoring? Unlikely unless and until they apply for approval.......... |
#15
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Red V symbol (log file not valid) after OLC upload.
On Nov 23, 7:02*pm, Cliff Hilty
wrote: Im still trying to figure out why any of the files have to be "secure" ! Security is an illusion. I thought the intent of the OLC was to promote more people flying and friendly competition. Still scratching my head with all of this regulatory crap. After all, we are all in it for the money and the girls right? If they want to cheat that bad let them. Its been my experience that the cheaters are found out and rightly ostersized out of the sport anyway. Just my .2 cents worth. And while Im at it that goes the same for badge and record flights. AFAIC KISS principal applies. What are we testing after all, how good am I at flying or following recording procedures. Jumping off the soap box now and flame sheilds on! CH Can't agree more. These requirements are nonsense. Logger security is an illusion.. There are easier ways to fake a flight. You can just take your secure logger in a power plane and claim a wave flight. Or stay on tow for the whole flight and manipulate the start and end of the flight in the claim form. I've seen many flights with land outs and aero retrieve all included in the flight since the pilot did not turn off the logger until after the aero retrieve. I believe it is also possible to hook condor to a PDA and generate a valid IGC file. Someone posted such a flight once as an experiment. We need to put pressure on OLC to drop these requirements. |
#16
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Red V symbol (log file not valid) after OLC upload.
A PDA file may have the .IGC suffix, but it isn't a valid file for any
Badge, Record or OLC claim (no pressure data). At 06:24 25 November 2011, Ramy wrote: I believe it is also possible to hook condor to a PDA and generate a valid IGC file. Someone posted such a flight once as an experiment. We need to put pressure on OLC to drop these requirements. |
#17
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Red V symbol (log file not valid) after OLC upload.
Peter Purdie wrote:
A PDA file may have the .IGC suffix, but it isn't a valid file for any Badge, Record or OLC claim (no pressure data). A PDA file is valid for OLC. OLC approved quite a few PDA applications (including XCSoar and most/all commercial ones). And it is trivial to fool any PDA software by sending fake NMEA data into its serial port (Condor or fully synthesized). That NMEA stream may include fake pressure data and even fake ENL data. Max |
#18
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Red V symbol (log file not valid) after OLC upload.
So OLC will accept a totally insecure PDA file but reject a Cambridge 20
one because it CAI verification is done on the raw data file? They must have some logic to it ;-) At 08:10 25 November 2011, Max Kellermann wrote: Peter Purdie wrote: A PDA file may have the .IGC suffix, but it isn't a valid file for any Badge, Record or OLC claim (no pressure data). A PDA file is valid for OLC. OLC approved quite a few PDA applications (including XCSoar and most/all commercial ones). And it is trivial to fool any PDA software by sending fake NMEA data into its serial port (Condor or fully synthesized). That NMEA stream may include fake pressure data and even fake ENL data. Max |
#19
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Red V symbol (log file not valid) after OLC upload.
Peter Purdie wrote:
So OLC will accept a totally insecure PDA file but reject a Cambridge 20 one because it CAI verification is done on the raw data file? They must have some logic to it ;-) Easy to fix: feed your Cambridge 20 IGC file to a PDA, and let the PDA sign it with its software key .. ;-) Max |
#20
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Red V symbol (log file not valid) after OLC upload.
On Nov 25, 3:04*am, Max Kellermann wrote:
Peter Purdie wrote: So OLC will accept a totally insecure PDA file but reject a Cambridge 20 one because it CAI verification is done on the raw data file? *They must have some logic to it ;-) Easy to fix: feed your Cambridge 20 IGC file to a PDA, and let the PDA sign it with its software key .. ;-) Max This will work for those who fly pure gliders, but motorgliders can not use PDA as loggers since they do not produce ENL record. As such, the alternative is to to change to the non notorized version in the OLC claim to be able to use PDA generated IGC files. A solution that quiet a few motorglider pilots use. Another proof that OLC requirement for secure files is nonesense. Ramy |
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