DG "service contract" revisited

On 21 oct, 10:10, jcarlyle wrote:
It might be different in Canada than in the US. How is DG's "3 days to
pay" notification sent?

I never received anything by post or e-mail, the charge just appeared
on my credit card at the end of the month. A DG rep confirmed that DG
was renewing automatically without notification.

-John

On Oct 21, 9:58 am, bish wrote:



DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

I was sent a email saying which credit card they will use
S6

On Oct 21, 1:44*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
DG has another distasteful business practice that isn't well known,
yet. If you sign up for the service contract, they will automatically
(without even asking you in advance) charge your credit card for
subsequent years. Guess how I know?

-John


....and being a "recurrent payment" from a credit card you cannot stop
it without their agreement. Even if you cancel your card it will
find its way to a new one of the same type. This was discussed on
U.R.A.S a year or so ago. I have been caught by this in another
context. Now I never ever set up any recurring payment from a credit
or debit card for anything. Many companies do not tell you that you
are setting one up when you start e.g. a subscription.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ban...rring-payments

John Galloway

On Oct 21, 6:48*am, ContestID67 wrote:
I live in fear that one day I will need some semi-trivial inexpensive
part (i.e. springs in the airbrakes) for my glider and have to pay the
"DG-ransom" to obtain said part, back dated to time immemorial.

Here in the US, 14CFR§21.303(b)2 makes provisions for the installation
of owner-produced parts on certificated aircraft in cases where the
originals are impractical to obtain. I think you can make a good case
that that is the situation that prevails here.

This article has some good information about owner-produced parts, and
also offers a cautionary tale about how it can go wrong:

http://150cessna.tripod.com/parts.html

Thanks, Bob K.

John,

Many thanks for that information! So DG might have set their service
contract up like a "book of the month" club, whereby you have to
specifically cancel to get out of future years of service contracts?
How sneaky can they get? There's absolutely no mention of that in the
documents I have from DG! I think I'll send them both an e-mail and a
letter cancelling the contract for next year, and see if they honor my
request.

I must say that while I have gotten the new maintenance manual, parts,
and drawings from DG, I'm not happy with their "service". It's a long
story, but the gist is that DG claims that since the landing gear fork
movement measurements in my LS8 meet their specifications, the reason
my gear collapsed after hitting a bump in a cornfield (after 50 foot
of ground roll, as proven by a picture) was due to the gear handle
being unlocked. Not likely unless I unlocked the gear lever with my
teeth, since both hands and both feet were fairly busy at the time
with other activities.

-John

On Oct 21, 11:57 am, johngalloway wrote:
On Oct 21, 1:44 pm, jcarlyle wrote:

DG has another distasteful business practice that isn't well known,
yet. If you sign up for the service contract, they will automatically
(without even asking you in advance) charge your credit card for
subsequent years. Guess how I know?

-John

...and being a "recurrent payment" from a credit card you cannot stop
it without their agreement. Even if you cancel your card it will
find its way to a new one of the same type. This was discussed on
U.R.A.S a year or so ago. I have been caught by this in another
context. Now I never ever set up any recurring payment from a credit
or debit card for anything. Many companies do not tell you that you
are setting one up when you start e.g. a subscription.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ban...rring-payments

John Galloway

On 10/21/2011 10:10 AM, jcarlyle wrote:
It might be different in Canada than in the US. How is DG's "3 days to
pay" notification sent?

I never received anything by post or e-mail, the charge just appeared
on my credit card at the end of the month. A DG rep confirmed that DG
was renewing automatically without notification.

-John

On Oct 21, 9:58 am, wrote:
DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6

You can always dispute the charge with your credit card company and they
will issue a chargeback to DG. In the US, if a company has too many
chargebacks, they loose the ability to accept credit cards.

--
Mike Schumann

Yes, I I was aware of that. Because of the gear collapse, though, it
was advantageous to keep the service contract going, even if DG did
renew it by underhanded means.

-John


On Oct 21, 2:27 pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:

You can always dispute the charge with your credit card company and they
will issue a chargeback to DG. In the US, if a company has too many
chargebacks, they loose the ability to accept credit cards.

--
Mike Schumann

On Oct 21, 7:27*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:
On 10/21/2011 10:10 AM, jcarlyle wrote: It might be different in Canada than in the US. How is DG's "3 days to
pay" notification sent?

I never received anything by post or e-mail, the charge just appeared
on my credit card at the end of the month. A DG rep confirmed that DG
was renewing automatically without notification.

-John

On Oct 21, 9:58 am, *wrote:
DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6

You can always dispute the charge with your credit card company and they
will issue a chargeback to DG. *In the US, if a company has too many
chargebacks, they loose the ability to accept credit cards.

--
Mike Schumann

That's the problem with a recurring payment - when you dispute it with
the credit card company they will, quite correctly, tell you that you
have authorised a recurring payment and that there are, therefore, no
grounds to dispute it through them. The fact that you weren't aware
of it cuts no ice with them. If I pay for any service by card that
could in any way turn into a recurring payment I specify that I wish
it recorded that I am not authorising a recurring payment and have
been surprised to find how often the default position of the other
side was to put the transaction through as one. Examples have been -
home insurance, breakdown cover, vehicle insurance, credit card
protection policy etc. Some send a renewal notice with the fact that
the payment will be automatically taken buried in the text - hoping
that you miss it. They may do this less in the US but DG is
European.

John Galloway

On Oct 21, 12:26*pm, johngalloway wrote:
On Oct 21, 7:27*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:



On 10/21/2011 10:10 AM, jcarlyle wrote: It might be different in Canada than in the US. How is DG's "3 days to
pay" notification sent?

I never received anything by post or e-mail, the charge just appeared
on my credit card at the end of the month. A DG rep confirmed that DG
was renewing automatically without notification.

-John

On Oct 21, 9:58 am, *wrote:
DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6

You can always dispute the charge with your credit card company and they
will issue a chargeback to DG. *In the US, if a company has too many
chargebacks, they loose the ability to accept credit cards.

--
Mike Schumann

That's the problem with a recurring payment - when you dispute it with
the credit card company *they will, quite correctly, tell you that you
have authorised a recurring payment and that there are, therefore, *no
grounds to dispute it through them. *The fact that you weren't aware
of it cuts no ice with them. * If I pay for any service by card that
could in any way turn into a recurring payment I specify that I wish
it recorded that I am not authorising a recurring payment and have
been surprised to find how often the default position of the other
side was to put the transaction through as one. Examples have been -
home insurance, breakdown cover, vehicle insurance, credit card
protection policy etc. * Some send a renewal notice with the fact that
the payment will be automatically taken buried in the text - hoping
that you miss it. * They may do this less in the US but DG is
European.

John Galloway

There are systems for example B of A's "shop safe" that let you create
a unique credit card number with a designated life span, usually 12
months at most. It conceals the true card number and prevents use
after the date you set. But you have to know when to use it, and the
DG auto-charge has caught most people by surprise. I am exempt from
the service fee but one possible way around the fee for people who are
stuck with it would be to form a buying club, three DG 200's pay one
fee and buy the parts for that service contract.

On Oct 21, 1:22*pm, brianDG303 wrote:
On Oct 21, 12:26*pm, johngalloway wrote:





On Oct 21, 7:27*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote:

On 10/21/2011 10:10 AM, jcarlyle wrote: It might be different in Canada than in the US. How is DG's "3 days to
pay" notification sent?

I never received anything by post or e-mail, the charge just appeared
on my credit card at the end of the month. A DG rep confirmed that DG
was renewing automatically without notification.

-John

On Oct 21, 9:58 am, *wrote:
DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6

You can always dispute the charge with your credit card company and they
will issue a chargeback to DG. *In the US, if a company has too many
chargebacks, they loose the ability to accept credit cards.

--
Mike Schumann

That's the problem with a recurring payment - when you dispute it with
the credit card company *they will, quite correctly, tell you that you
have authorised a recurring payment and that there are, therefore, *no
grounds to dispute it through them. *The fact that you weren't aware
of it cuts no ice with them. * If I pay for any service by card that
could in any way turn into a recurring payment I specify that I wish
it recorded that I am not authorising a recurring payment and have
been surprised to find how often the default position of the other
side was to put the transaction through as one. Examples have been -
home insurance, breakdown cover, vehicle insurance, credit card
protection policy etc. * Some send a renewal notice with the fact that
the payment will be automatically taken buried in the text - hoping
that you miss it. * They may do this less in the US but DG is
European.

John Galloway

There are systems for example B of A's "shop safe" that let you create
a unique credit card number with a designated life span, usually 12
months at most. *It conceals the true card number and prevents use
after the date you set. *But you have to know when to use it, and the
DG auto-charge has caught most people by surprise. *I am exempt from
the service fee but one possible way around the fee for people who are
stuck with it would be to form a buying club, three DG 200's pay one
fee and buy the parts for that service contract.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is anyone going to be surprised when DG folds? I'm not. Like many
others I would not consider purchase of a legacy LS or DG, nor would I
consider a new DG glider, even if happened to clearly outperform the
competition.

On 10/21/2011 3:26 PM, johngalloway wrote:
On Oct 21, 7:27 pm, Mike
wrote:
On 10/21/2011 10:10 AM, jcarlyle wrote: It might be different in Canada than in the US. How is DG's "3 days to
pay" notification sent?

I never received anything by post or e-mail, the charge just appeared
on my credit card at the end of the month. A DG rep confirmed that DG
was renewing automatically without notification.

-John

On Oct 21, 9:58 am, wrote:
DG gives you 3 days to refuse to pay then it charge you automatically.
This is illegal in Canada.
S6

You can always dispute the charge with your credit card company and they
will issue a chargeback to DG. In the US, if a company has too many
chargebacks, they loose the ability to accept credit cards.

--
Mike Schumann

That's the problem with a recurring payment - when you dispute it with
the credit card company they will, quite correctly, tell you that you
have authorised a recurring payment and that there are, therefore, no
grounds to dispute it through them. The fact that you weren't aware
of it cuts no ice with them. If I pay for any service by card that
could in any way turn into a recurring payment I specify that I wish
it recorded that I am not authorising a recurring payment and have
been surprised to find how often the default position of the other
side was to put the transaction through as one. Examples have been -
home insurance, breakdown cover, vehicle insurance, credit card
protection policy etc. Some send a renewal notice with the fact that
the payment will be automatically taken buried in the text - hoping
that you miss it. They may do this less in the US but DG is
European.

John Galloway
You need to challenge this with your credit card company in writing.
From my personal experience, the credit card company will always side
with the customer unless the merchant can provide a clear signed
agreement authorizing the charge. Even then, the customer can prevail
if there is a question of whether the signature is forged or not.

US law gives credit card customers a lot of clout in these areas,
regardless of where the merchant is located.

--
Mike Schumann