First glider to buy 10-20k euro's

Op dinsdag 27 maart 2018 23:04:50 UTC+2 schreef Bastoune:
Hi Senna,

I bought a Pegase right at 50 hours and really love the ship. While the ailerons and elevator is not automatic, my ship was fitted with Wekeslink (spelling?) sleeves on the ailerons and airbrake connections which significantly ease the connection job inside the turtle deck.

I have a one man rigger and handling and rigging the wings by myself is not an issue.

I really the handling of the ship. I am not sure what these go for in Europe.

Good luck!

I'd look for a one man rigging aid as well. I have seen 2 Pegase for sale at € 15k and seems fair, but without 8.33KHz radio, so will need to replace that before I fly anyway.

One thing I did notice in the Pegase is that when I'm in a tight thermal, as I usually do, I can't seem to fly slow enough. For example: turning left requires you to pull the stick backwards and slightly right, but I can't seem to pull it right enough so I keep flying at 85-90 km/h in a thermal and can't go much slower. I do fly at nearly minimum takeoff weight.

Op dinsdag 27 maart 2018 21:39:14 UTC+2 schreef Martin Gregorie:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 06:34:17 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

Op dinsdag 27 maart 2018 14:07:49 UTC+2 schreef :
I bought a Pegase a couple of years ago. I don't have that many flights
in it yet but here are my observations. Rigging can be easy or
difficult. Much depends on the the surface of the ground. On pavement
or flat grass gravel it goes together pretty easily. Uneven terrain can
present a problem as everything has to be aligned just right. The wings
are "bendy" so it takes greater movement at the tips to get the spars
to move than you might be used to. I find the elevator connection
"(L'Hotellier) to be a bit of a pain as access is limited. I don't know
who designed the access hole for the control connections but it must
have been somebody with small hands and arms (Trump?)and the
connections are made by feel.

I think you are looking at a substantial increase in performance over
the other gliders your are considering and would recommend one if you
can afford it. Peg vs. ASW 19? I never flew a 19 and there are
conflicting opinions. I moved up from an ASW 15 and the difference,
especially at higher speeds is quite noticeable. The Peg handles very
well and there are many people who swear by (not at) this glider. I'm
becoming one of them. Search this group for Pegase opinions. There are
a few threads. Support is a consideration. I'm not exactly sure what is
going on but it seems there is a new owner.

There are indeed a couple of Pegase for sale for 15k, but my French is
very rusty (thank you Google Translate) and I'm curious how it compares
to, say, the Libelle in rigging and flight.

I have a fair amount of time in both, flying our club's Pegase 90 for
about a two years, which included 5 attempts at a 300 goal flight and a
team entry with another club member in a Regionals competition.

First point: most Pegs are one of the four 101 subspecies, with differ in
relatively minor structural details and were built with l'Hotellier
control hookups. Our club Pegase is a 90, which is later than the 101s
and has automatic hookup for all controls. Some 101Ds have been retro-
fitted with automatic control hookups: one was bought last year by a club
member. So, if you're offered a Peg 90 or one with automatic control
hookups, if all other things equal, thats the one to go for.

I agree with what mdfadden says about its flight characteristics: the Peg
is very nice to fly and cruises well. Performance is similar to a Discus
1 but I found the Pegase more comfortable than a Discus and it certainly
has a smaller rear blind spot: I could just see the tailplane tips while
flying the Peg but never got near seeing that far round behind me in a
Discus. Its a two pin wing system, so is much easier to rig than any of
the single pin system gliders. The Peg 90 goes together pretty easily.

I've never rigged a Peg with Hotelliers, but know from personal
experience that the difficulty of groping inside a small, black hole
while you hook up the controls is no different from an ASW-19 or 20, and
not much fun to do.

Despite using a single pin rigging system, Libelles are fairly easy to
rig because everything is in clear view just behind the seat, so you
never end up peering into the fuselage through a hole or or back through
the baggage area to work out why the wing isn't going on. Libelles have
light wings, so its never a problem getting help to rig or derig one. The
airbrakes and elevator self-connect and the aileron connections are
simple to use and very easy to check for a correct connection. Feel under
the aileron drive lever and if you can feel end of the spring-loaded
connector pin protruding from the bottom of the connection box, its
correctly connected.

Libelles have light, nicely balanced controls and are generally easy and
enjoyable to fly. They give you all-round vision: I can see my rudder
waggle when I kick it, ever when firmly strapped in. Yes, the airbrakes
are a bit weak, but this is not a problem once you're used to them and is
offset by good slipping behavior: it is easy to enter and exit a slip on
a heading and, unless you deliberately change attitude in the slip,
you'll come out with pretty much the same airspeed as you went in.
Descent rate in a full-blooded slip is better than you'll achieve in a
Peg because that razor-back tail boom creates a lot of drag when driven
sideways through the air. For the same reason you'll quickly learn to
keep the yaw string centered in a cruise. In my experience anyway, the
Libelle is about the most spin-resistent single seat glider I've flown:
I screwed up a zoomed entry to a thermal once in mine by being a second
or two too late to start the push-over and roll into the turn. As the
glider reached the attitude I wanted, I noticed the ASI was on the stall
speed so, because I had plenty of height and everything felt OK, I just
lowered the nose another 10 degrees and waited to see what happened. The
Libelle mushed round 90 degrees while picking up speed and then climved
away in the thermal. I never felt it was going to stall, drop a wing or
spin.

Watchpoints:

- If you're thermalling in a tight turn with a lot of top aileron, you
may find the inner aileron stalls. This gives a sudden roll into the
turn. This feels a bit like a spin departure but without the nose drop.
Simply centre the stick, which immediately unstalls the aileron and go
on climbing in the thermal.

- DO NOT winch launch a Libelle until you've had a thorough briefing from
somebody who is familiar with winching them them. They have a tendency
to snap-rotate as they come off the ground unless you have full forward
trim set and and the stick pushed forward just past the trimmer
setting, i.e. you're just starting to notice the trim spring resisting
you. Do this correctly and the glider will unstick and climb gently
in the same attitude until you have enough airspeed to rotate into full
climb. This needs a fairly small stick movement, after which the launch
has no other surprises.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to the Pegase? I really like the Pegase in flight and seating is very comfortable with my height and posture. What scares me about owning a Pegase or Libelle is maintenance. The original manufacturers do not longer exist and could end up paying for maintenance just like the DG and LS contract.

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to
the Pegase?

I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are
identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the
rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the
ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This
dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg
fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail
boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting panel.

What scares me about owning a
Pegase or Libelle is maintenance.

Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever
since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this tear's
annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a non-approved
(solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard landing, but no
mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed replacement axles + bolts &
washers which arrived within a week.

Situation isn't so clear for the Peg.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 3:38:09 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to
the Pegase?

I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are
identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the
rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the
ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This
dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg
fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail
boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting panel.

What scares me about owning a
Pegase or Libelle is maintenance.

Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever
since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this tear's
annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a non-approved
(solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard landing, but no
mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed replacement axles + bolts &
washers which arrived within a week.

Situation isn't so clear for the Peg.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

The Pegase cockpit has a panel that tilts up with the canopy, which the 19, 20A and early B did not have unless modified.
Jim

Op woensdag 28 maart 2018 13:59:53 UTC+2 schreef JS:
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 3:38:09 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to
the Pegase?

I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are
identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the
rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the
ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This
dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg
fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail
boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting panel.

What scares me about owning a
Pegase or Libelle is maintenance.

Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever
since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this tear's
annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a non-approved
(solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard landing, but no
mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed replacement axles + bolts &
washers which arrived within a week.

Situation isn't so clear for the Peg.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

The Pegase cockpit has a panel that tilts up with the canopy, which the 19, 20A and early B did not have unless modified.
Jim

How does the canopy open on those models? Is it a tilted canopy to the side? As I am fairly short and can hardly reach the Pegase canopy when I'm strapped tight.

I had a '19 many years ago, a 1978 model, I think.Â* The canopy opened
forward but the panel was fixed to the fuselage.Â* I have seen some
smaller people have a light rope attached or looped over one of the
locking levers to pull down the canopy.Â* It's removed after the canopy
is down and stowed.

On 3/28/2018 6:07 AM, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Op woensdag 28 maart 2018 13:59:53 UTC+2 schreef JS:
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 3:38:09 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to
the Pegase?

I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are
identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the
rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the
ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This
dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg
fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail
boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting panel.

What scares me about owning a
Pegase or Libelle is maintenance.

Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever
since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this tear's
annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a non-approved
(solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard landing, but no
mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed replacement axles + bolts &
washers which arrived within a week.

Situation isn't so clear for the Peg.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
The Pegase cockpit has a panel that tilts up with the canopy, which the 19, 20A and early B did not have unless modified.
Jim
How does the canopy open on those models? Is it a tilted canopy to the side? As I am fairly short and can hardly reach the Pegase canopy when I'm strapped tight.

--
Dan, 5J

Op woensdag 28 maart 2018 16:24:54 UTC+2 schreef Dan Marotta:
I had a '19 many years ago, a 1978 model, I think.Â* The canopy opened
forward but the panel was fixed to the fuselage.Â* I have seen some
smaller people have a light rope attached or looped over one of the
locking levers to pull down the canopy.Â* It's removed after the canopy
is down and stowed.

On 3/28/2018 6:07 AM, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Op woensdag 28 maart 2018 13:59:53 UTC+2 schreef JS:
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 3:38:09 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to
the Pegase?

I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are
identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the
rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the
ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This
dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg
fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail
boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting panel.

What scares me about owning a
Pegase or Libelle is maintenance.

Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever
since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this tear's
annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a non-approved
(solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard landing, but no
mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed replacement axles + bolts &
washers which arrived within a week.

Situation isn't so clear for the Peg.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
The Pegase cockpit has a panel that tilts up with the canopy, which the 19, 20A and early B did not have unless modified.
Jim
How does the canopy open on those models? Is it a tilted canopy to the side? As I am fairly short and can hardly reach the Pegase canopy when I'm strapped tight.

--
Dan, 5J

Aah that makes it very interesting. If the canopy still opens forward, attaching a string would suit me perfectly

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 05:07:31 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

As I am fairly short and can hardly reach the Pegase canopy when
I'm strapped tight.

My club's Pegase has always had a piece of cord, around 35cm long with a
knot on the bottom, that hangs from the right side canopy latch. That
makes it easy to pull the canopy down far enough to get both hands on the
latch levers to pull it closed and lock it.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 04:59:51 -0700, JS wrote:

On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 3:38:09 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ
to the Pegase?

I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are
identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the
rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the
ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This
dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg
fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail
boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting
panel.

What scares me about owning a Pegase or Libelle is maintenance.

Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever
since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this
tear's annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a
non-approved (solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard
landing, but no mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed
replacement axles + bolts &
washers which arrived within a week.

Situation isn't so clear for the Peg.


--
Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org

The Pegase cockpit has a panel that tilts up with the canopy, which the
19, 20A and early B did not have unless modified.

Many (all?) ASW-20Fs, which were license built by Centrair before they
ended the license and started to make the Pegase, had a lifting panel
with the canopy attached to it, though I'm uncertain whether they all had
it or just the later ones. Are there any ASW-20F on your side of the pond?


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org