I just have to get it off my chest.

"Don Pyeatt" wrote in :

Not so fast....this is not a yEnc thread. I just want someone to
answer my question about news and email clients.

Why is OE inferior to other clients?

It is beginning to appear that no one can answer it.

gdp



Don It has been answered but you, my friend, just prefer not to accept the
answers.

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton"
wrote:

Don Pyeatt wrote:
If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole
planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that hasn't
happened.

Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some people
seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped smoking by
now - but that hasn't happened.

Catch my drift?

I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE is
not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader, any
more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is more
towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the
problem.

If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock yourself
out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader.

Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon
examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as "what
I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven
multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was
finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world.

You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and
analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet
readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple.

I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups:
individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having
exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should
have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already done
that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is finding a
bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power Post v11b
(yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I would switch to
that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace.

Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly
Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was
developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing
and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter.

I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't
get the whole "glass over the head" thing...

Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to yEnc's
"superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I did with a
simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said, YMMV.

And the yEnc thumpers dont get the We dont want it, dont need it thing
either..... The yEnc'ers force their pages and pages of unreadable code
down our throats even tho time and time again its been said that its not
welcome here. Since you seem to be unable to answer Dons Question with a
straight answer and just keep throwing
analogy after analogy around....I come to your house and you dont smoke and
Im a smoker, out of common courtesy, Im not gonna smoke in your house......
but that comes from those having conciences and able to be considerate of
others...... Nuff said, if you want to post yEnc fine, your just wasting
bandwidth to me and shall join the other yEncers in the kill file.

"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton"
wrote:

Don Pyeatt wrote:
If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole
planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that
hasn't
happened.

Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some people
seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped smoking by
now - but that hasn't happened.

Catch my drift?

I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE is
not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader, any
more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is more
towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the
problem.

If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock yourself
out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader.

Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon
examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as "what
I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven
multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was
finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world.

You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and
analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet
readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple.

I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups:
individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having
exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should
have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already done
that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is finding a
bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power Post v11b
(yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I would switch to
that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace.

Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly
Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was
developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing
and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter.

I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't
get the whole "glass over the head" thing...

Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to yEnc's
"superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I did with a
simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said, YMMV.

"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:07:35 -0500, "Don Pyeatt"
wrote:

Hi, Casey !

I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I
thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered
question:
What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course decode yEnc
without an add-on patch?

I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the
years
that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it.

What say you?

Without going into exhaustive detail, Don, that's like asking what MS
Word can do, that Wordpad can't? You have the cart and the horse
backwards. Both Wordpad and OE are targeted to very specific and
narrow uses. OE is an email program with limited newsreading ability.
Similarly, Wordpad may act as an elemental word processor.

I can speak with some authority on this, as my first PC used CP/M, not
MS-DOS, and I remember the dreaded EDLIN, the only text editor
available to early versions of MS-DOS. It was a line-editor. That is,
one could edit text one line at a time. You had to type commands along
the lines of "edit line 3" and then you could perform primitive
editing similar to command-line editing until WinXP.

Then along (finally) comes WordPad, which is a freebie included with
the latest Windows. Considered as a basic word processor (compared to
the 80s stuff) it is excellent. WYSIWYG, different fonts on-screen,
in-place editing on-screen, italics, boldface, etc, etc. After Valdocs
that's exciting!

But... Compared to a real modern word processor -or even a powerful
text editor such as TextPad or EMACS, Wordpad is primitive.

To put it another way, OE to a modern newsreader as MS Paint is to
Adobe Photoshop.

I don't hate OE per se, as an email utility. I loathe it as an example
of how MicroSoft allowed it to become one of the world's worst
vulnerability magnet.

There are free programs which are head and shoulders above what MS
produces for email, newsgroups, and the web. I've mentioned Agent
already. The Mozilla Firefox brower and Mozilla Sunbird email client
are the best of the best. If you want to see what's going to be added
to the next edition of Internet Explorer, just check out what's
current (or old {g}) in Firefox and Sunbird. The Mozilla products are
more secure than equivalent MS products, more stable, more advanced,
and one helluva lot cheaper.

To get back to your original point, I know how to use OE; I just don't
see the point; any more than I see the point of using WordPad as a
word processor. (which reminds me: OpenOffice, anyone?) There are far
more powerful freeware applications out there. OE is comparatively
primitive, and a security nightmare. If I could rip it out by the
roots from WinXP, I would do so in a heartbeat.

I think my earlier analogy still holds: you can use a truck as a
tractor, but that doesn't make it a good idea. OE is not a newsgroup
reader.

I'll also repeat my earlier statment: much of the argument can be
avoided by posting via newgroup reader and not using yEnc. I have no
problem doing that, just to keep the peace. Alas, the best freeware
auto-poster is Power Post v11b, AKA Power Post v11b-yEnc. Are there
any yEnc-hating hackers out there who would be willing to (ahhh...)
"yEnc" that code out of the program to allow standard bulk posting?

Please excuse the pun.


Thanks, Casey.

Unfortunately, after all the subjective comparisons you used, you have not
answered my basic question. To repeat:

Other than yEnc, "What will your agent do that OE will not?"

This former CP/M and DOS user just wants a straight answer.

Please be objective.

Don

"Clairbear" wrote in message
...
"Don Pyeatt" wrote in :

Not so fast....this is not a yEnc thread. I just want someone to
answer my question about news and email clients.

Why is OE inferior to other clients?

It is beginning to appear that no one can answer it.

gdp



Don It has been answered but you, my friend, just prefer not to accept the
answers.

No, it has not. Just like you, others who try to answer the basic question
just run and hide or, at best, throw up a smoke screen.

Want to try again? Here it is:

Other than yEnc, "What will your agent do that OE will not?"

Waiting patiently,

gdp

"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton"
wrote:

Don Pyeatt wrote:
If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole
planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that
hasn't
happened.

Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some people
seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped smoking by
now - but that hasn't happened.

Catch my drift?

I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE is
not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader, any
more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is more
towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the
problem.

If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock yourself
out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader.

Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon
examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as "what
I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven
multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was
finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world.

You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and
analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet
readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple.

I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups:
individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having
exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should
have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already done
that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is finding a
bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power Post v11b
(yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I would switch to
that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace.

Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly
Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was
developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing
and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter.

I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't
get the whole "glass over the head" thing...

Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to yEnc's
"superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I did with a
simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said, YMMV.


No, I did not.

What I said was, "Other than yEnc, what will your agent do that OE will
not?"

gdp

Don Pyeatt wrote:
"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton"
wrote:

Don Pyeatt wrote:
If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then
the whole planet would have taken on these wonderful, free
packages - but that hasn't
happened.

Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some
people seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped
smoking by now - but that hasn't happened.

Catch my drift?

I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE
is not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader,
any more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is
more towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the
problem.

If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock
yourself out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader.

Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon
examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as
"what I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven
multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was
finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world.

You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and
analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet
readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple.

I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups:
individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having
exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should
have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already
done that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is
finding a bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power
Post v11b (yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I
would switch to that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace.

Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly
Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was
developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing
and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter.

I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't
get the whole "glass over the head" thing...

Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to
yEnc's "superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I
did with a simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said,
YMMV.


No, I did not.

What I said was, "Other than yEnc, what will your agent do that OE
will not?"

gdp



His newsreader is causing problems with attributions.



--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

Other than yEnc, "What will your agent do that OE will not?"

Waiting patiently,

gdp


I think the answer has been given - Using a newsreader other than OE makes
them feel superior, I guess.

As for OE not being a newsreader - well, I am reading news on it.

"Don Pyeatt" wrote in message
...

"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:07:35 -0500, "Don Pyeatt"
wrote:



Why don't you people start a NEW newsgroup "alt.binaries.pictures.yEnc is
better.No it isn't.Yes it is", then everyone can move over there and
continue to club this thread into the ground.

"Don Pyeatt" wrote in :


"Clairbear" wrote in message
...
"Don Pyeatt" wrote in
:

Not so fast....this is not a yEnc thread. I just want someone to
answer my question about news and email clients.

Why is OE inferior to other clients?

It is beginning to appear that no one can answer it.

gdp



Don It has been answered but you, my friend, just prefer not to
accept the answers.

No, it has not. Just like you, others who try to answer the basic
question just run and hide or, at best, throw up a smoke screen.

Want to try again? Here it is:

Other than yEnc, "What will your agent do that OE will not?"

Waiting patiently,

gdp





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