Any early turn takeoffs still around?

There used to be takeoff minimums where a turn was required as soon as
possible after takeoff for obstacle avoidance reasons. Anyone know if
any such still exist or if they have all been phased out?

Michael

(Michael) wrote

There used to be takeoff minimums where a turn was required as soon as
possible after takeoff for obstacle avoidance reasons. Anyone know if
any such still exist or if they have all been phased out?

I don't belive that "they" have moved the hill at St. Maarten yet. :-)

Bob Moore

Boston used to have just such a turn, though it was not required for
obstacles. "Left turn heading 140 degrees as soon as practical after
take off" was the wording for R/W 22, IIRC. The departure was still
"Terped" for a turn at 400 feet, however it was also terped for an
immediate turn. The early turn was not for obstacle avoidance, but
for noise or other issues.
St. Maarten departure off R/W 09 (?) is a visual procedure, last time
I saw it.
Stan
..
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:47:40 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote:

(Michael) wrote

There used to be takeoff minimums where a turn was required as soon as
possible after takeoff for obstacle avoidance reasons. Anyone know if
any such still exist or if they have all been phased out?

I don't belive that "they" have moved the hill at St. Maarten yet. :-)

Bob Moore

There used to be takeoff minimums where a turn was required as soon as
possible after takeoff for obstacle avoidance reasons. Anyone know if
any such still exist or if they have all been phased out?

There are still a bunch of these in Alaska. Go to:

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/AKTO.PDF

and then search for "immediate".

Barry

Bob Moore wrote:

(Michael) wrote

There used to be takeoff minimums where a turn was required as soon as
possible after takeoff for obstacle avoidance reasons. Anyone know if
any such still exist or if they have all been phased out?

I don't belive that "they" have moved the hill at St. Maarten yet. :-)

I don't believe it is in the United States, either, thus not under FAA TERPs
criteria.

Barry wrote:

There used to be takeoff minimums where a turn was required as soon as
possible after takeoff for obstacle avoidance reasons. Anyone know if
any such still exist or if they have all been phased out?

There are still a bunch of these in Alaska. Go to:

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/AKTO.PDF

and then search for "immediate".

Barry

Those never did comply with TERPs criteria. TERPs did permit the use of the
word"practicable," not "immediate" for departures provided not less than
400-1 was also required. The FAA in Alaska marches to a different drummer.

Bob Moore wrote
There used to be takeoff minimums where a turn was required as soon as
possible after takeoff for obstacle avoidance reasons. Anyone know if
any such still exist or if they have all been phased out?

I don't belive that "they" have moved the hill at St. Maarten yet. :-)

They refers to the takeoff minimums based on an early turn. Of course
the obstacle necessitating the procedure will still be there, but it's
likely that the procedure/minimums will have changed.

For example, at LVJ there is a 1200 ft tower 3-4 miles off the
departure end of Rwy 14, a bit right of centerline. There used to be
a published procedure that called for an early left turn to avoid it,
and takeoff mins were reasonable. Now the procedure calls for a
straight climb to 1300, and mins are 1500-3 unless you can make 490
fpnm.

My interest is in finding airports where the departure procedure still
calls for an early turn and the minimums are set accordingly.

Michael

"Barry" wrote
There are still a bunch of these in Alaska. Go to:

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/AKTO.PDF

and then search for "immediate".

Thank you. That was exactly what I needed.

I don't suppose you know of any outside Alaska?

Michael

I don't suppose you know of any outside Alaska?

I found one at Beckley, WV (BKW):
http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/NE4TO.PDF

RALEIGH COUNTY MEMORIAL
TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS: Rwy 10, 400-1 or std. with a min. climb of 350' per NM to
4000. Rwy 19, 400-1 or std. with a min. climb of 250' per NM to 4000. Rwy 28,
300-1 or std. with a min. climb of 250' per NM to 4000.

DEPARTURE PROCEDU Rwy 1, climb to 5000 via 350° heading before proceeding
on course. Rwy 10, immediate climbing left turn to 5000 via 350° heading
before proceeding on course. Rwy 19, climb to 4000 via 240° heading then
climbing right turn to 5000 via 330° before proceeding on course. Rwy 28,
climbing right turn to 5000 via 320° heading before proceeding on course.

NOTE: Rwy 10, 90' AGL trees 1350' from departure end of runway, on runway
centerline. 312' AGL trees and terrain 5595' from departure end of runway,
1805' right of runway centerline. Rwy 19, 60' AGL obstacle light on vortac
building 550' from departure end of runway, 749' left of runway centerline.
Rwy 28, 215' AGL tower 6406' from departure end of runway, 2123' left of
centerline.

I thought that Williamsport, PA (IPT) might be one, but it says "left climbing
turn as soon as practicable," which Frank told us is the approved TERPS
wording. Runway 15 (now closed) at IPT pointed right at the ridge that's 1500
feet above airport elevation, a mile and a half from the field. CFIIs who
aren't too far from Williamsport should consider taking instrument students
there; it's an interesting airport with an interesting ILS approach:
http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/00457I27.PDF .

Barry

Barry, are these "immediate" turn departures still terped for 2 miles
off the dept end of the r/w?

what would be the protection if not?
Stan
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 00:16:07 -0400, "Barry" wrote:
I found one at Beckley, WV (BKW):
http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0405/NE4TO.PDF


DEPARTURE PROCEDU Rwy 1, climb to 5000 via 350° heading before proceeding
on course. Rwy 10, immediate climbing left turn to 5000 via 350° heading
before proceeding on course.