"Group Mission Trolls lose their ass trying to censor" was:"Compost Heap declares viktory!" ( [ADMIN] UMA FAQ M1A2)

Errons Mother wrote:
Erron's dad wrote:

(snipage occurs, fore and aft)

RTO, you may wish to address this one. Regardless of Nosehairs status,
your
bunches last little tiff about the A-7 showed that you will almost
always
take the opposite no matter what the truths are. And thank you for
xposting
into and AF area where almost all of us know the Short Ugly Little
Feller
(cleaned up). And even when give the operational facts, your bunch
continues to troll along. Sounds like Nosehair just might have a
point.

your original claim:

But one has to understand that an A-7 could pick it's own weight up
in ordinance. Empty weight for the A-7E was just over 15,000 lbs
including fuel. Loaded, it was a bit over 30K. If you could sling it
under it, it could lift it. The D and E models (AF and Navy) were are
remarkable Aircraft for it's size. And it carried two Aim9s as well.

what they said in RAM:

"Thomas Schoene":
In 1982, Jane's had the following figures for the A-7E:

Empty Weight: 19,127 lbs
Max T-O Weight: 42,000 lbs

That's a difference of 22,837lbs, so potential payload did exceed the
empty
weight of the aircraft. But that's including pilot, consumables, fuel,
and
weapons (including pylons). The maximum external weapon load was stated
as
15,000 lbs. That was carried on six underwnig hardpoints (four @ 3500
lbs,
two @ 25000 lbs) and twio fuselage stations @ 500 lbs (for AAMs). Yes,
that
adds to 20,000 lbs, but you could not safely load all the stations to
their
maximum stressed weights.

Whether that's a realistic load for operational use is of course a
different
issue.

"John Carrier":
The A-7's empty weight was a bit over 20K IIRC, certainly not 15 (even
in
the A-7A version ... the E was much heavier). The A-7 never lifted its
empty weight in stores. That would have taken it well over max gross.

"Guy Alcala":
Dorr's book lists the A-7A @ 15,037 lb. empty, MTOW 32,500 lb. A-7D is
listed
at 19,781 lb. empty, 42,000 lb. MTOW, essentially agreeing with Tom's
data from
Jane's. Typical bombload during Vietnam for Navy A-7s was about 6,000
lb.,
although during DS they tended to operate with only 4,000 lb. such as 4
x Mk.
83 1,000 lb. bombs (plus an AIM-9 or two), as they'd removed two pylons
to
decrease the drag. USAF A-7Ds tended to operate with 4-6,000 lb. in
Vietnam,
plus two tanks and a pod or two if going into a high-threat area. Navy
a-87s
in Vietnam tended not to carry tanks (they were closer to the targets)
unless
they were acting as buddy tankers, and they had internal ECM so didn't
need to
take up a pylon or two with that.



kindly point out to me the parts that agree with and/or support
your original claim.... i can't seem to find any.

Of course not. Then again, I once was in a band with a drummer that was
army. His MOS was Computer Technician. In the AF, Navy or Marines, He
would have repaired the equipment from top to bottom. But the Army's idea
was for him to pull the black boxes and send them to someone else. Everyone
in the AF or Navy could do that job without the fancy title and with no
training. It only required him to look a the pictures and to pull the
appropriate black box and push in another one. No wonder you can't
understand.