Pitts Groundloop

Totally agree with what you say, Dudley. Maybe my machine has a toeing
problem, but it's one my guru told me to watch out for, so he seems to think
the bigger swings happen at lower groundspeed as a regular feature of the
type. I've never flown an S-1 other than my own so I can't really comment.

Either way, it's one hell of a fun airplane to fly! I was out this weekend
working on a sequence to use to get my UK display authorization as well as
some snap rolls. Both still need a lot of work to before they're good
enough in my mind, but my hammerheads are coming along much better now
(reducing power as the nose comes across seems to solve the torquing
problem). The only thing my S-1 is missing is a second seat to share the
ride with friends!

Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
nk.net...

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
All other comments here not withstanding, the Pitts has a funny quirk
in
that it tracks straight and true in the initial landing and rollout
but when
it gets down to about 30 mph, does get really squirrely and tends to
make
it's most dramatic attempts at groundlooping. As everyone else has
said,
it's not too big a deal and smooth but quick feet are all you need to
make
it behave.

Shawn
Pitts S-1D

From my old personal checkout notes for pilots I was checking out in the
Pitts;

"The Pitts on roll out can be a very interesting machine if your mind
has already completed the landing but the airplane is still fooling
around with it :-))))
"Keep your heels firmly planted on the floor and make a fulcrum out of
your ankles so that when you apply rudder pressure on either side, the
pressure is controlled by the ankle instead of the knee.
This allows a much more subtle use of rudder and brake which is
absolutely imperative in a tailwheel airplane, ESPECIALLY one as closely
coupled as the Pitts, during the last phases of your roll out on landing
as rudder effectiveness is decreasing as the result of decreasing
dynamic pressure on the control surfaces!!!!"
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

(MLenoch) wrote in message ...
DuD: Maybe you can answer this: Do the Blues have any consideration for
separation distances from tall buildings when doing performances around large
cities?
Thx,
VL

I wonder about this also. I live on the 21st floor in a Chicago
lakefront condo and a couple of Blue Angels went by level with our
window Saturday at what seemed a very short distance. Great to
watch!!

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
Totally agree with what you say, Dudley. Maybe my machine has a
toeing
problem, but it's one my guru told me to watch out for, so he seems to
think
the bigger swings happen at lower groundspeed as a regular feature of
the
type. I've never flown an S-1 other than my own so I can't really
comment.

Either way, it's one hell of a fun airplane to fly! I was out this
weekend
working on a sequence to use to get my UK display authorization as
well as
some snap rolls. Both still need a lot of work to before they're good
enough in my mind, but my hammerheads are coming along much better now
(reducing power as the nose comes across seems to solve the torquing
problem). The only thing my S-1 is missing is a second seat to share
the
ride with friends!

Shawn

Hey Shawn; sounds like you're having fun! :-)

Snaps are all timing of course. Just watch out for the ole' "Pitts can
do it" syndrome. This settles in about the time you get the execution
for single snaps down perfectly and start doing snap and a half's with
recoveries exactly on target. The next logical step is multiple snaps,
and this of course requires higher airspeeds at entry. It's here that
you can get into over g problems with a Pitts if you're not real
careful.
You're right on about the power in a HH. (Do you have a 150 or a 180 in
your airplane?)
What I used to do to get a clean break was to use whatever rudder up the
vertical line I needed to keep things honest, then wait for the apex
peak. Just before reaching apex, I'd go hard inside rudder/outside
aileron and a bit of forward stick for the precess to initiate and just
as the nose started to knife, I'd ease off
the throttle and lose that dynamic pressure off the rudder to lose the
torque. Worked like a charm.......well.....most of the time anyway :-)))
In the Pitts, just be careful about that power and forward stick. You're
all pro for inverted flat spin in your airplane. If you get a bit too
much going on with that forward stick and power at the same time in your
airplane, you can easily go into an inverted flat spin with no trouble
at all...but I'm fairly sure you're on top of this and don't need my
"helping hand" :-)

Ah, for the good ole'days!!!!!! I miss it every now and then. :-)
Dudley

(PaulH) wrote:

(MLenoch) wrote in message ...
DuD: Maybe you can answer this: Do the Blues have any consideration for
separation distances from tall buildings when doing performances around large
cities?
Thx,
VL

I wonder about this also. I live on the 21st floor in a Chicago
lakefront condo and a couple of Blue Angels went by level with our
window Saturday at what seemed a very short distance. Great to
watch!!

Since they've been reported to be flying at Mach 6 around Chicago, I'd
stay away from windows when they are flying nearby! g
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

"PaulH" wrote in message
om...
(MLenoch) wrote in message
...
DuD: Maybe you can answer this: Do the Blues have any consideration
for
separation distances from tall buildings when doing performances
around large
cities?
Thx,
VL

I wonder about this also. I live on the 21st floor in a Chicago
lakefront condo and a couple of Blue Angels went by level with our
window Saturday at what seemed a very short distance. Great to
watch!!

That's about 210 feet agl. No problem! At that altitude, believe me, the
LAST thing you are watching is the altimeter!!! :-))

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

"alexy" wrote in message
...
(PaulH) wrote:

(MLenoch) wrote in message
...
DuD: Maybe you can answer this: Do the Blues have any
consideration for
separation distances from tall buildings when doing performances
around large
cities?
Thx,
VL

I wonder about this also. I live on the 21st floor in a Chicago
lakefront condo and a couple of Blue Angels went by level with our
window Saturday at what seemed a very short distance. Great to
watch!!

Since they've been reported to be flying at Mach 6 around Chicago, I'd
stay away from windows when they are flying nearby! g

Mach 6 huh!!! Well.....you have to admit...the press IS getting better.
At least they didn't write "Mack 6"!!!!!!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

"Dudley Henriques" wrote:


"alexy" wrote in message

Since they've been reported to be flying at Mach 6 around Chicago, I'd
stay away from windows when they are flying nearby! g

Mach 6 huh!!! Well.....you have to admit...the press IS getting better.
At least they didn't write "Mack 6"!!!!!!

To be fair, the Sun Times was just reporting what they were told by
what they probably considered a reliable source on aviation matters --
the manager of the White Sox!
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

To be fair, the Sun Times was just reporting what they were told by
what they probably considered a reliable source on aviation matters --
the manager of the White Sox!

It wasn't the Blues who buzzed the Sox on Saturday. I personally know who it
was..............
VL

It'll take me a couple of times to digest what you've written here, Dudley,
but I think I understand. So far, I'm not using any forward stick on
hammerheads and the amount of aileron I need seems to vary with each flight
(could it be weight dependant?).
Thanks again for the tips!
Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
Totally agree with what you say, Dudley. Maybe my machine has a
toeing
problem, but it's one my guru told me to watch out for, so he seems to
think
the bigger swings happen at lower groundspeed as a regular feature of
the
type. I've never flown an S-1 other than my own so I can't really
comment.

Either way, it's one hell of a fun airplane to fly! I was out this
weekend
working on a sequence to use to get my UK display authorization as
well as
some snap rolls. Both still need a lot of work to before they're good
enough in my mind, but my hammerheads are coming along much better now
(reducing power as the nose comes across seems to solve the torquing
problem). The only thing my S-1 is missing is a second seat to share
the
ride with friends!

Shawn

Hey Shawn; sounds like you're having fun! :-)

Snaps are all timing of course. Just watch out for the ole' "Pitts can
do it" syndrome. This settles in about the time you get the execution
for single snaps down perfectly and start doing snap and a half's with
recoveries exactly on target. The next logical step is multiple snaps,
and this of course requires higher airspeeds at entry. It's here that
you can get into over g problems with a Pitts if you're not real
careful.
You're right on about the power in a HH. (Do you have a 150 or a 180 in
your airplane?)
What I used to do to get a clean break was to use whatever rudder up the
vertical line I needed to keep things honest, then wait for the apex
peak. Just before reaching apex, I'd go hard inside rudder/outside
aileron and a bit of forward stick for the precess to initiate and just
as the nose started to knife, I'd ease off
the throttle and lose that dynamic pressure off the rudder to lose the
torque. Worked like a charm.......well.....most of the time anyway :-)))
In the Pitts, just be careful about that power and forward stick. You're
all pro for inverted flat spin in your airplane. If you get a bit too
much going on with that forward stick and power at the same time in your
airplane, you can easily go into an inverted flat spin with no trouble
at all...but I'm fairly sure you're on top of this and don't need my
"helping hand" :-)

Ah, for the good ole'days!!!!!! I miss it every now and then. :-)
Dudley

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
It'll take me a couple of times to digest what you've written here,
Dudley,
but I think I understand. So far, I'm not using any forward stick on
hammerheads and the amount of aileron I need seems to vary with each
flight
(could it be weight dependant?).
Thanks again for the tips!
Shawn

On the weight; in my opinion, no. You are probably doing it right and
not carrying power into the apex far enough to require a counter for the
precess. You would know this right away, as the nose would want to come
directly back into you throwing you off line.

Off the top of my head on HH's. Just remember I haven't been doing them
for a while now!!! :-))))

At the apex on a HH, you have several forces in play at once, depending
on the power in play when you reach the rotation point.
You're carrying a ton of power up the vertical line to extend and as
airspeed decreases, this power really begins to effect the airplane.
Basically, torque wants to pull you left; and in the slice down,
asymmetric lift wants to roll you left and precession (if you still have
the power in) is in play from the prop disk. The forward stick counters
the precession. Note that if you have cut the power, you have basically
settled the precess problem!! Usually, if your timing is just right, you
have just a bit of forward stick required at the apex just before you
throttle back. It's a touchy inter-relationship between the forces and
the required control pressures. The main thing in the Pitts is how close
to inverted flat spin pro controls you are with power on the airplane at
the apex coupled with whatever forward stick you need to counter the
precess from the prop. Visualize the nose wanting to come straight back
into you from the precess and you'll see right away why you need the
forward stick.
The main thing to remember is that with a HH, inputs are basically
sequential rather than all at once. The big issue is neutralizing on the
downside. Whatever you do in a Pitts, don't carry forward stick and full
rudder with power too far into the slice at the apex.
The good side of all this is that if you're doing it right, you're
cutting the power before you reach the critical point with forward stick
and the problem is solved. Anytime you blow something at the apex, cut
the power, let the nose come through, recover and do it again.

Dudley