Variations in soft field landings

Newps wrote:



Erik wrote:


Regardless of the type of landing, even short field or soft, I've
always been taught to clean up the aircraft after I'm clear of the
runway. I don't touch anything until then. So, keep them down, I've
been taught.


That is the weekend pilot information you got there. You give up
performance but you'll never retract the wheels on the ground. It's a
newbie answer. Are you a newbie?

Yep, I'm a n00b. And it's a pain in the ass trying to retract the
wheels on those damn 150's. It's a manual procedure that's fairly
difficult to extend as well.

I'm also not fortunate to be a weekend pilot. More like a monthly
pilot. $100 hamburgers are good, but can't do that weekly

I was taught that way too, even though I assured all instructors that I
could barely afford to fly a fixed gear aircraft and was pretty sure I'd
never be flying a retract.

I've got Johnson bar flaps, so there's really not much chance of confusing
flaps with gear in my TP.

I'd keep flaps down for a soft field and flaps up and on the brakes for a
short field.

mike

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Erik wrote:


Regardless of the type of landing, even short field or soft, I've
always been taught to clean up the aircraft after I'm clear of the
runway. I don't touch anything until then. So, keep them down, I've
been taught.


That is the weekend pilot information you got there. You give up
performance but you'll never retract the wheels on the ground. It's a
newbie answer. Are you a newbie?

Erik wrote:
Maxwell wrote:

I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft
field landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the
brakes as soon as possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than
leaving the flaps down for drag, and loosing some braking power to the
extra lift.

However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply.
He insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down
until you slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the
brakes.

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?


Regardless of the type of landing, even short field or soft, I've
always been taught to clean up the aircraft after I'm clear of the
runway. I don't touch anything until then. So, keep them down, I've
been taught.


Yes, that is how I was taught, but it appears that later model Cessna's
recommend differently.

Matt

In article ,
"Maxwell" wrote:

I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft field
landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the brakes as soon as
possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than leaving the flaps down for
drag, and loosing some braking power to the extra lift.

However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply. He
insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down until you
slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the brakes.

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?

On a "soft field landing," it is presumed that you have lots of runway,
but it is soft (muddy). Leave the flaps down, stick full back, so you
slow down more rapidly and settle at a lower airspeed. You can leave
some power in, with the stick full aft, to taxi to an intended turnoff.

I think that the original poster has "soft field" confused with "short
field," where you need to get on the brakes as soon as possible, so you
dump the flaps immediately.

Orval Fairbairn wrote in
news
On a "soft field landing," it is presumed that you have lots of runway,
but it is soft (muddy). Leave the flaps down, stick full back, so you
slow down more rapidly and settle at a lower airspeed. You can leave
some power in, with the stick full aft, to taxi to an intended turnoff.

I don't think that presumption is accurate.

I wonder how many turf runways are not also 2000'?

And I wonder how many 2000' are not also turf...

Maxwell wrote:
What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?

Flaps down! Unless it's a short, soft field, in which case you should
reconsider using it at all.

I was taught to go flaps-up on a short field for that reason, to
increase braking power. However, you have to consider the speed of
retraction available: it's a lot easier to do quickly in say a
Johnson-barred example than it is with a fully electric set (or hydraulics).

Plus, you have to consider your dedication to the landing (ie, will this
bounce and need a go-round), as well as your cockpit load. Nothing is
worse than coming down, slapping what you think is the right lever,
hitting a bounce, and coming in gear up (which lever *did* you hit? ).
It may be a better idea to sacrifice that tiny inkling of braking action
to ensure that you can make positive reinforcement of the controls.

TheSmokingGnu

Short, soft fields are really pretty easy to get into; they're a bitch to
get out of though

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

"TheSmokingGnu" wrote in message
...

Flaps down! Unless it's a short, soft field, in which case you should
reconsider using it at all.


TheSmokingGnu

Jim Carter wrote:
Short, soft fields are really pretty easy to get into; they're a bitch to
get out of though


Yes, you generally have to wait until the field is no longer soft ... or
truck out the airplane. :-)

Matt

Maxwell wrote:

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?

what does the POH say? if it says anything about it, that's what you
do; if the POH doesn't say anything, what does the FAA says, i.e.,
chapter 8.17 of the Airplane Flying Handbook (FAA-H-8083-3A)

In either case, politely remind the instructor that this is a *soft*
landing and not a *short* landing so effective braking is not an issue
(on a real soft field, slowing down will be taken care of by the field,
don't worry about it :-)

--Sylvain

"Sylvain" wrote in message
t...
Maxwell wrote:

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?

what does the POH say? if it says anything about it, that's what you
do; if the POH doesn't say anything, what does the FAA says, i.e.,
chapter 8.17 of the Airplane Flying Handbook (FAA-H-8083-3A)


The POH is a little unclear. It does list "flaps up" as the last item on the
check list, but it doesn't clairify "upon" touch down.