US ELT Installation

Eric,

Do all Schleicher gliders lack carbon fiber above the baggage
compartment?

For example, is that true of my ASW-27 (sn 29)?

How far back does the carbon free area go?

If so, is that a reasonable location for a transponder antenna?

I want to install a transponder, but I will not use an external
antenna.

Thanks,

Bob Zahradnik
Durango, CO


Eric Greenwell wrote:
mhr wrote:

These questions are particularly pertinent to owners of experimentally
certificated gliders since the owner can do all the work. As well, for
owners of experimentally certificated gliders made of carbon fiber, a
functional installation could be quite difficult unless the new antenna
is mounted externally, which no racer would want to do.

There are alternatives for the gliders that can not install an antenna
in the fuselage, such as one in the cockpit; for example, I've seen
rubber ducky type mounted on the cockpit sill even with the pilot's
shoulder or more rearward. My unit is mounted like that, but with a whip
style instead of the ducky style. Schleicher gliders are not carbon
above the baggage area, so an antenna can be mounted there.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

In my 1998 '24B, you could tell where the carbon was just by the color
of the fiberglass above the spar area.



wrote:
Eric,

Do all Schleicher gliders lack carbon fiber above the baggage
compartment?

For example, is that true of my ASW-27 (sn 29)?

How far back does the carbon free area go?

If so, is that a reasonable location for a transponder antenna?

I want to install a transponder, but I will not use an external
antenna.

Thanks,

Bob Zahradnik
Durango, CO


Eric Greenwell wrote:
mhr wrote:

These questions are particularly pertinent to owners of experimentally
certificated gliders since the owner can do all the work. As well, for
owners of experimentally certificated gliders made of carbon fiber, a
functional installation could be quite difficult unless the new antenna
is mounted externally, which no racer would want to do.
There are alternatives for the gliders that can not install an antenna
in the fuselage, such as one in the cockpit; for example, I've seen
rubber ducky type mounted on the cockpit sill even with the pilot's
shoulder or more rearward. My unit is mounted like that, but with a whip
style instead of the ducky style. Schleicher gliders are not carbon
above the baggage area, so an antenna can be mounted there.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

wrote:

Eric,

Do all Schleicher gliders lack carbon fiber above the baggage
compartment?

For example, is that true of my ASW-27 (sn 29)?

My ASH 26 E is carbon free in that area, but I don't know about all
Schleichers. There is some right over where the spars go through the
fuselage, but mostly it's non-carbon (glass or aramid - don't know
which). It will be black if there is carbon there, and
greenish/yellowish if it's not.

The dealer, John Murray, may be able to tell you what other pilots have
done, and save you reinventing the wheel. I wonder if an antenna could
be incorporated into the headrest, which I think is fiberglass on my glider.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Two years ago Tom Brenza did a nice job installing an ELT behind the
seatback on the left. The whip antenna then curls up along the roof of
the luggage compartment. I guess he knew that that section was not
carbon.

I've talked to John about this, and while he is usually very helpful,
he had little transponder experience.

The headreast idea may work for an ELT antenna, but my tired old brain
doesn't need a transponder antenna transmitting right behind my head.

Behind the spars would be ideal if it would work.

Bob Zahradnik
Durango, CO

The last time I read it, ELTs are mandatory, not
optional at all, has this changed?

'8. Required use of ELTs (RCM 26, 27, Minor)
The use of ELT's will become a mandatory requirement
for entry to all SSA competitions beginning in 2006.'


I am waiting to see the # of entries in contests
the first year this is implemented. I am especially
interested in comparing the # of 'new' contest entrants
in 2006 compared to the previous 3 years or so.

I am guessing there will be more than a 20% decrease
in total contest participants the first year glider-mounted
ELTs are required in all SSA contests. I am also guessing
that some classes/entire contests will be cancelled
from lack of participation if this rule is fully implemented
this way.

But I've been wrong before. The fact that UH is
responding to this thread makes me think that more
flexible options are being well considered. Perhaps
this rule will be morphed into a better solution.

In any case, I am heartened to see lively discussion
about this subject...

I would like to see a new poll:
Question-Are you in favor of mandatory requirement
of permanently installed impact activated ELTs in every
glider in every SSA soaring contest?

Mark

At 20:42 02 December 2005, wrote:
Part of the research on this was a poll of contest
managers and CD's
who worked during 2005.
On the subject of making mandatory 10 of 28 favored
this.
Of those saying no to mandatory, 12 said yes to making
it available by
organizer option.
6 said no to either option.
This guidance, in addition to the Poll response, was
considered in the
decision to make the option available to organizers
as a part of the
rules without requiring a waiver.
I'm not convinced all organizers will require them-
far from it. Nor do
I think they are sure to be sued since they will not
be the cause of
the accident.
That said,I sincerely hope none of them has to answer
the question 'Why
did you not require this safety device when it could
have helped save a
life?'
As a long time racer, and member of the rules committee,
I personally
can't see how to make any case for not requiring them.
That said, I am
in the minority on this and support the half way approach
as what is to
go forward.
Have one friend missing for one night and you will
understand.
As to the assertion that this has not been thought
through, this is
simply not the case. You may not agree with the result,
but I can
assure you this has been considered with great care
and in
consideration of the opinions of many.
Respectfully
UH


Mark J. Boyd

The last time I read it, ELTs are mandatory, not
optional at all, has this changed?

'8. Required use of ELTs (RCM 26, 27, Minor)
The use of ELT's will become a mandatory requirement
for entry to all SSA competitions beginning in 2006.'


I am waiting to see the # of entries in contests
the first year this is implemented. I am especially
interested in comparing the # of 'new' contest entrants
in 2006 compared to the previous 3 years or so.

I am guessing there will be more than a 20% decrease
in total contest participants the first year glider-mounted
ELTs are required in all SSA contests. I am also guessing
that some classes/entire contests will be cancelled
from lack of participation if this rule is fully implemented
this way.

But I've been wrong before. The fact that UH is
responding to this thread makes me think that more
flexible options are being well considered. Perhaps
this rule will be morphed into a better solution.

In any case, I am heartened to see lively discussion
about this subject...

I would like to see a new poll:
Question-Are you in favor of mandatory requirement
of permanently installed impact activated ELTs in every
glider in every SSA soaring contest?

Mark

At 20:42 02 December 2005, wrote:
Part of the research on this was a poll of contest
managers and CD's
who worked during 2005.
On the subject of making mandatory 10 of 28 favored
this.
Of those saying no to mandatory, 12 said yes to making
it available by
organizer option.
6 said no to either option.
This guidance, in addition to the Poll response, was
considered in the
decision to make the option available to organizers
as a part of the
rules without requiring a waiver.
I'm not convinced all organizers will require them-
far from it. Nor do
I think they are sure to be sued since they will not
be the cause of
the accident.
That said,I sincerely hope none of them has to answer
the question 'Why
did you not require this safety device when it could
have helped save a
life?'
As a long time racer, and member of the rules committee,
I personally
can't see how to make any case for not requiring them.
That said, I am
in the minority on this and support the half way approach
as what is to
go forward.
Have one friend missing for one night and you will
understand.
As to the assertion that this has not been thought
through, this is
simply not the case. You may not agree with the result,
but I can
assure you this has been considered with great care
and in
consideration of the opinions of many.
Respectfully
UH


Mark J. Boyd

Too much "chicken little" there, Mark!

I purchased and installed an impact activated ELT in my glider for less
than $100 so I could race this past season. I doubt if the cost of an
ELT is going to make the difference between racing and not racing for
most people, especially since it is actually a potentially useful
addition to one's glider!

Let's see - $1000 for a logger, $3000 for a glide computer/vario, $750
for a PDA and software, $1500 for a nice comfortable parachute, etc...
Racing isn't cheap - in any sport!

I would think that anyone who can afford a glider and the cost of going
to a race will be able to foot the one time expense of the ELT.

Now, what we really need is FLARM in all contestants to actually try to
avoid midairs!

Kirk
66

wrote:

Too much "chicken little" there, Mark!

I purchased and installed an impact activated ELT in my glider for less
than $100 so I could race this past season.

So, tell us what model it is, where your got it, and how you dealt with
the antenna!

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Eric,

It's a Filser ELT-2, non-TSO european glider ELT. Fits over the spars
in my LS6, with the rubber ducky (and on-off switch) just behind my
headrest.

W & W lists it for $219 or so - I ordered mine from a competitor (who
doesn't seem to carry them any more) and paid half that. Lucky, I
guess, since it was listed for $200 or so.

I installed it myself on my battery tray - it happens to be the same
size as my old (and deceased) GR1000 logger, and fit in the same mount.
Its totally self contained, so no wires to fiddle with, and I don't
have carbon fiber in the fuselage to worry about.

I just arm it before takeoff and check 121.5 on my radio before and
after flight.

The point is - there are a lot of options out there - especially now
that the TSO requirement will apparently be dropped - and cost
shouldn't be a real hindrance. After all, you are adding a good piece
of safety equipment to your glider that is probably as likely to save
your life as your parachute!

Kirk
66

Eric,

I installed mine this past weekend, the antenna is located forward and
under the instrument panel glareshield, attached to the rudder pedal
bracket and installed within 20° of vertical as required by the
manual.

AmeriKing, $206 including shipping from Paul Remde.

See details he www.jimphoenix.com

Jim

Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote:

Too much "chicken little" there, Mark!

I purchased and installed an impact activated ELT in my glider for less
than $100 so I could race this past season.

So, tell us what model it is, where your got it, and how you dealt with
the antenna!

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA