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alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 14th 15, 04:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WinPilot
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Posts: 21
Default alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)

It would be quite interesting to hear comments from people who actually use the software about ways to improve the user experience. Bob (or anyone else using or trying WinPilot), don't hesitate to submit your feedback directly from the app to developers by going into "Settings.Account-Type your message to developers here".

Also, at this point all the known crashing bugs have been fixed, but we are always happy to learn and fix new ones - use the same mechanism to report them.

The software should work quite well on iPhone 6 plus at this time.

Also, there is a new real time Doppler Radar overlay for the Usa users, we are looking forward to hear from people who tried this. If people like it, we can implement it for other regions as well.


Your Winpilot Team.
  #12  
Old May 14th 15, 05:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)

Apostate!

I imagine that somewhere in Silicon Valley they're heating up the
cauldrons of tar for you...



On 5/13/2015 7:08 AM, Bob Pasker wrote:
I have been using iGlide now for about 20 flights, and I really don't like it very much. It is riddled with bugs (which I have duly reported to Butterfly only to hear "yes, we're aware of that"), the user experience is terrible (and I speak as someone who has worked in user interaction and user experience for years), and the documentation is woefully out of date (last updated 2/2013) and incomplete. So I have wasted $33.

Are there other apps that people recommend for IoS?

thanks, bob


--
Dan Marotta

  #13  
Old May 14th 15, 05:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,134
Default alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 8:57:38 AM UTC-7, WinPilot wrote:
It would be quite interesting to hear comments from people who actually use the software about ways to improve the user experience. Bob (or anyone else using or trying WinPilot), don't hesitate to submit your feedback directly from the app to developers by going into "Settings.Account-Type your message to developers here".

Also, at this point all the known crashing bugs have been fixed, but we are always happy to learn and fix new ones - use the same mechanism to report them.

The software should work quite well on iPhone 6 plus at this time.

Also, there is a new real time Doppler Radar overlay for the Usa users, we are looking forward to hear from people who tried this. If people like it, we can implement it for other regions as well.


Your Winpilot Team.


Concerning Winpilot, I have submitted bugs on the built in feedback mechanism and nothing seems to come of it. My suggestion is that you acknowledge the submission (return email?) somehow and track the bugs. On my iPhone 6+ for example, the glider is offset above the middle and to the left (I am assuming it is not recognizing the screen size and thinking it is running on a 6). Using it in either simulator or GPS mode, just panning around and zooming a few times it will crash, usually within 5 minutes. Is there some way to capture the crash log? It just crashes to the home screen. I would like to see the product succeed, but the support needs to be better or it ain't going to happen.
  #14  
Old May 14th 15, 05:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 1,134
Default alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)

On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 3:21:13 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 16:49:47 UTC+1, Sean Fidler wrote:
Funny. I find iGlide to be excellent (particularly the UI) and have found very few bugs (both were addresses within days for me) after using it extensively for over 2 years (so far) in numerous contests and cross country flights and in many environments (mountains, flatlands, complex airspace). In my experience, some people just do not get iOS fundementals. Could this, perhaps, be the case for you? What did you not like?

I also have extensive UI design background. I find the iGlide UI to be far superior to any other small portable device soaring software including XC Soar. It requires far less steps to do the majority of critical ot common functions and most pilots I have spoken with find it intuitive and simple to use. This is just my opinion of course.

I have extensive experience with WinPilot, Strepla, SeeYou (Oudie 1 and 2) and XC Soar as well on multiple devices.

I am a member of a firm which primarily consults (and also helps develop) custom mobile applications (typically financial services). UI differentiators (IP, etc) is usually a critical topic.

Please list here (since you flamed it so sharply) all the bugs you found with iGlide, especially the ones the developer acknowledged as "known" bugs. Since you bought the $39 version of iGlide, clearly you have no experience with tasking, etc., correct?

If you want to to talk about terrible UI, I give you SeeYou mobile. Would you not agree?

Then again, UI is a fairly subjective subject and a matter of personal preference.

Can you provide an example of soaring UI's that you approve of?

Thanks!



It would be much appreciated if one of you guys who prefer the iGlide and XCSoar UI to SYM could put up a video of setting a task on iGlide and/or XCS. Would anyone be prepared to do that?

I find it much easier to set tasks and to change zoom levels on SYM than on XCS, but maybe I am missing the efficient ways to do things in XCS. I particularly like being able to customise the map screen of SYM fully flexibly to use my preferred combination of overlays and navboxes, and stats are very easy to find. For iGlide, I played with the lite version and it seemed hopeless, but I never looked at a manual and have never seen the full version so have not done it justice. However, since I have just changed my phone from iOs to a Galaxy S6 I am not going to pursue iGlide.


Tasking is a deeper subject, but zooming: On XCSoar, simply drag up or down to zoom. The problem there is the touch screen is really poor and making it recognize the drag is tedious and uncertain. On iGlide, simply pinch to zoom, like you do on every other iPhone app. To pan, just touch and drag, no need for a pan mode like XCSoar has. The touch screen on the iPhone 6 is very good, noticeably better than the 5s and worlds apart from the Oudie/Avier/V2. Heck even the old iPaqs were better than that. The redraw speed of the iPhone 6 and iGlide is also worlds apart.
  #15  
Old May 14th 15, 05:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)

On a more serious note, Bob's complaint and Sean's (and others') rather
aggressive responses simply support the notion of "Diff'rent strokes for
diff'rent folks)".

I make no bones that I'm a fan of XCSoar. Maybe iGlide allows task
generation if 3 less keystrokes, but who cares? I've got all day.
Heck, I can even build and declare a task today for a flight tomorrow.
I like XCSoar the best because it's the one I have the most experience
with. My glider came with WinPilot but the former owner told me about
XCSoar and I bought a Mio GPS and gave it a try. For someone who'd
never used a moving map before (military, airlines, corporate, gliding)
it was eye-opening!

The only shortcomings were power and sunlight readability. Then a
friend showed me his Dell Streak 5 and I found I could read it with the
sun shining over my shoulder! This is 5+ year old technology, folks!
Why haven't all the makers of portable devices tried transflective
technology? Anyway, for $100 brand new on eBay and with free software,
why would you want anything else? Seriously, who needs realtime doppler
radar overlays while soaring?

I submit that any one of us can get used to any of these products and
become quite proficient with it. Then, upon having difficulty operating
a new interface, it's easy to claim that the first is better than the
second.

On 5/14/2015 10:03 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Apostate!

I imagine that somewhere in Silicon Valley they're heating up the
cauldrons of tar for you...



On 5/13/2015 7:08 AM, Bob Pasker wrote:
I have been using iGlide now for about 20 flights, and I really don't like it very much. It is riddled with bugs (which I have duly reported to Butterfly only to hear "yes, we're aware of that"), the user experience is terrible (and I speak as someone who has worked in user interaction and user experience for years), and the documentation is woefully out of date (last updated 2/2013) and incomplete. So I have wasted $33.

Are there other apps that people recommend for IoS?

thanks, bob


--
Dan Marotta


--
Dan Marotta

  #16  
Old May 14th 15, 05:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WinPilot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)

Jon - we've just sent you email - please reply with a screen shot of the offset glider.
Also, a screenshot of the settings page would be nice so we can try to reproduce the crash while panning.
Would be fun to get you to be one the evangelists of WP over here
  #17  
Old May 14th 15, 05:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)

....Use two fingers and drag to pan.

There are so many things in the XCSoar user's guide. How many of you
have looked through that? Not complete enough (at close to 200 pages)?
Jump in and make updates!

On 5/14/2015 10:12 AM, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 3:21:13 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 16:49:47 UTC+1, Sean Fidler wrote:
Funny. I find iGlide to be excellent (particularly the UI) and have found very few bugs (both were addresses within days for me) after using it extensively for over 2 years (so far) in numerous contests and cross country flights and in many environments (mountains, flatlands, complex airspace). In my experience, some people just do not get iOS fundementals. Could this, perhaps, be the case for you? What did you not like?

I also have extensive UI design background. I find the iGlide UI to be far superior to any other small portable device soaring software including XC Soar. It requires far less steps to do the majority of critical ot common functions and most pilots I have spoken with find it intuitive and simple to use. This is just my opinion of course.

I have extensive experience with WinPilot, Strepla, SeeYou (Oudie 1 and 2) and XC Soar as well on multiple devices.

I am a member of a firm which primarily consults (and also helps develop) custom mobile applications (typically financial services). UI differentiators (IP, etc) is usually a critical topic.

Please list here (since you flamed it so sharply) all the bugs you found with iGlide, especially the ones the developer acknowledged as "known" bugs. Since you bought the $39 version of iGlide, clearly you have no experience with tasking, etc., correct?

If you want to to talk about terrible UI, I give you SeeYou mobile. Would you not agree?

Then again, UI is a fairly subjective subject and a matter of personal preference.

Can you provide an example of soaring UI's that you approve of?

Thanks!


It would be much appreciated if one of you guys who prefer the iGlide and XCSoar UI to SYM could put up a video of setting a task on iGlide and/or XCS. Would anyone be prepared to do that?

I find it much easier to set tasks and to change zoom levels on SYM than on XCS, but maybe I am missing the efficient ways to do things in XCS. I particularly like being able to customise the map screen of SYM fully flexibly to use my preferred combination of overlays and navboxes, and stats are very easy to find. For iGlide, I played with the lite version and it seemed hopeless, but I never looked at a manual and have never seen the full version so have not done it justice. However, since I have just changed my phone from iOs to a Galaxy S6 I am not going to pursue iGlide.

Tasking is a deeper subject, but zooming: On XCSoar, simply drag up or down to zoom. The problem there is the touch screen is really poor and making it recognize the drag is tedious and uncertain. On iGlide, simply pinch to zoom, like you do on every other iPhone app. To pan, just touch and drag, no need for a pan mode like XCSoar has. The touch screen on the iPhone 6 is very good, noticeably better than the 5s and worlds apart from the Oudie/Avier/V2. Heck even the old iPaqs were better than that. The redraw speed of the iPhone 6 and iGlide is also worlds apart.


--
Dan Marotta

  #18  
Old May 14th 15, 09:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Carlyle
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Posts: 324
Default alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)

Dan,

Jerry Pournelle of Byte's Chaos Manor fame used to say "better is the enemy of good enough", and I guess you're echoing that sentiment. That's fine, I just recently gave up running Glide Navigator II on an iPAQ 3950, so I understand.

But just like sometimes it's necessary to shoot the engineers and start making product, other times it's necessary to drop the old stuff and adopt the latest and greatest. For me, it was time for iGlide. Why? Well, I find that I can get much more information with much less effort using iGlide than with other moving map programs. In addition, the terrain maps in iGlide are the best I've ever seen in any moving map program - that's important to me as aridge runner. Plus, iGlide gets wind and other air data from my Butterfly Vario and uses it to help me fly better. Finally, I find that the iPhone 6 is more easily readable in bright sunlight than the iPAQ, MIO, Avier, Oudie, etc.

You are correct, proficiency is important and it takes time to acquire. But having spent a significant amount of time with SYM and LK800 I found iGlide to be much easier to use. That may just be the way my mind works, and YMMV...

Anyway, have fun and enjoy soaring, whatever moving map program you use...

-John, Q3

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 12:24:26 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
On a more serious note, Bob's complaint and Sean's (and others')
rather aggressive responses simply support the notion of "Diff'rent
strokes for diff'rent folks)".

I make no bones that I'm a fan of XCSoar.* Maybe iGlide allows task
generation* if 3 less keystrokes, but who cares?* I've got all day.*
Heck, I can even build and declare a task today for a flight
tomorrow.* I like XCSoar the best because it's the one I have the
most experience with.* My glider came with WinPilot but the former
owner told me about XCSoar and I bought a Mio GPS and gave it a
try.* For someone who'd never used a moving map before (military,
airlines, corporate, gliding) it was eye-opening!

The only shortcomings were power and sunlight readability.* Then a
friend showed me his Dell Streak 5 and I found I could read it with
the sun shining over my shoulder!* This is 5+ year old technology,
folks!* Why haven't all the makers of portable devices tried
transflective technology?* Anyway, for $100 brand new on eBay and
with free software, why would you want anything else?* Seriously,
who needs realtime doppler radar overlays while soaring?

I submit that any one of us can get used to any of these products
and become quite proficient with it.* Then, upon having difficulty
operating a new interface, it's easy to claim that the first is
better than the second.

Dan Marotta


  #19  
Old May 14th 15, 10:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Pasker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 148
Default alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)


The bugs have been submitted to butterfly, and I have better things to do with my time than placate name callers. What you should be asking is for Butterfly to make the bug list public so that you have not only the ones I have submitted but also those submitted by others, and a roadmap of releases when they will be fixed. zendesk, github issues, GetSatisfaction are all platforms where developers can have a transparent dialog with their customers.
  #20  
Old May 14th 15, 11:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)

Dan or Sean

What model Dell Streak is best for XC soar?

Nick

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 9:24:26 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
On a more serious note, Bob's complaint and Sean's (and others')
rather aggressive responses simply support the notion of "Diff'rent
strokes for diff'rent folks)".



I make no bones that I'm a fan of XCSoar.* Maybe iGlide allows task
generation* if 3 less keystrokes, but who cares?* I've got all day.*
Heck, I can even build and declare a task today for a flight
tomorrow.* I like XCSoar the best because it's the one I have the
most experience with.* My glider came with WinPilot but the former
owner told me about XCSoar and I bought a Mio GPS and gave it a
try.* For someone who'd never used a moving map before (military,
airlines, corporate, gliding) it was eye-opening!



The only shortcomings were power and sunlight readability.* Then a
friend showed me his Dell Streak 5 and I found I could read it with
the sun shining over my shoulder!* This is 5+ year old technology,
folks!* Why haven't all the makers of portable devices tried
transflective technology?* Anyway, for $100 brand new on eBay and
with free software, why would you want anything else?* Seriously,
who needs realtime doppler radar overlays while soaring?



I submit that any one of us can get used to any of these products
and become quite proficient with it.* Then, upon having difficulty
operating a new interface, it's easy to claim that the first is
better than the second.


 




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