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#1
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Correct way of holding the stick during ground roll?
Very beginning pilot here (again).....and I am confused about the
appropriate way of holding the stick during the ground roll prior to take off. In Thomas Knauff's Glider Basics, he states (p.59, 2005 edition): "....before signaling to proceed with the launch, the glider pilot should set the elevator by holding the control stick at the approximate position that will result in the proper angle of attack. To do this, move the control stick the full allowable travel fore and aft, and then find the mid-point, or neutral position. Move the control stick back about 1/2 inch from this neutral position. This will be very close to the optimum position for takeoff. Aircraft designers build aircraft this way." However, in Russell Holtz's Flight Training for Gliders, I see (p. 27, 2008 edition): "If the glider norally rests on its main wheel and tail wheel, the stick should be held forward of neutral, so the as the glider picks up speed, the tail wheel will rise off the ground." I'm training in a Blanik L-23, which has a main wheel and a tailwheel. Knauff makes no mention of whether to hold the stick forward or aft depending on if the glider has a tail wheel or a nose wheel, yet Holtz does. (It's been three weeks since I've flown, and I can't remember what my instructors did.) For a glider with a tail wheel, which is correct? --Michael |
#2
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Correct way of holding the stick during ground roll?
For a glider with a tail wheel, which is correct? --Michael Forward for a taildragger, to get the hockey puck (in the case of the L23, other taildraggers have nice pneumatic tailwheels) off the ground as soon as possible and begin 'flying' on one wheel. Stick back for a nose dragger, to get the skid/nosewheel up asap. In both cases use whatever amount of stick req to keep it balanced on the one wheel once until the plane is actually ready to lift off... Most gliders have a tailwheel... but the L23 is a taildragger. The tailwheel on the nosedraggers is generally for ground handling. -Paul |
#3
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Correct way of holding the stick during ground roll?
My suggestioin would be stick forward to get the tail in the air. This
way, you are in control of the airplane. If you leave the tail in the ground, the airplane will take off when it wants to, leaving you to react to what it has just done. I believe your task is to make the airplane do what you want it to do, and not to try to catch up with what it just did. And if you were flying a nose dragger, I would start wit the stick back to get the skid up off the ground. The above assumes air tow for your launch method. Nose draggers and winches often will require the stick be held full forward at the start of launch. Why? High enough initial acceleration to change it to a tail dragger! My two cents, and I am NOT an instructor. So, you just got more advice than you paid for. Steve Leonard |
#4
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Correct way of holding the stick during ground roll?
On May 4, 3:12*am, Michael wrote:
Very beginning pilot here (again).....and I am confused about the appropriate way of holding the stick during the ground roll prior to take off. In Thomas Knauff's Glider Basics, he states (p.59, 2005 edition): "....before signaling to proceed with the launch, the glider pilot should set the elevator by holding the control stick at the approximate position that will result in the proper angle of attack. To do this, move the control stick the full allowable travel fore and aft, and then find the mid-point, or neutral position. *Move the control stick back about 1/2 inch from this neutral position. *This will be very close to the optimum position for takeoff. Aircraft designers build aircraft this way." However, in Russell Holtz's Flight Training for Gliders, I see (p. 27, 2008 edition): "If the glider norally rests on its main wheel and tail wheel, the stick should be held forward of neutral, so the as the glider picks up speed, the tail wheel will rise off the ground." I'm training in a Blanik L-23, which has a main wheel and a tailwheel. * Knauff makes no mention of whether to hold the stick forward or aft depending on if the glider has a tail wheel or a nose wheel, yet Holtz does. (It's been three weeks since I've flown, and I can't remember what my instructors did.) For a glider with a tail wheel, which is correct? --Michael Careful ! It depends on the glider, launch mechanism, and weather. Tom's advice is the best general advice you'll find. For a glider with a non-swiveling tailwheel or tailskid, in a cross-wind, proper procedure MAY be full back, to keep the glider tracking straight until you have good directional control. There are plenty of gliders where lifting the tail too soon with even a mild crosswind will cause an immediate turn into the wind... Talk to your instructor ! And review the proper procedure when flying a new type... Hope that helps, See ya, Dave "YO electric" PS: Tom's advice worked for the first-time 1-26 student pilot I briefed yesterday - absolutely no PIO... |
#5
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Correct way of holding the stick during ground roll?
Dave Nadler wrote:
Careful ! It depends on the glider, launch mechanism, and weather. "It depends" is good advice from Dave. to further illustrate the point, in a nose dragger, you'd be generally advised to hold the stick back to get the skid / nose wheel off the ground ASAP. However, if this nose dragger happens to a 2-33 and the tow plane makes an abrupt start, the skid will come off the ground by itself and the tail will slam onto the ground and there's nothing that you can do about it. You'd be well advised to start with the stick full forward in this case. On a calm wind day, The starting position of the stick is not too important, IMHO, because the controls are relatively ineffective at the start. When the wind blows, it's another story. Tony V. |
#6
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Correct way of holding the stick during ground roll?
On May 4, 6:42*am, TonyV wrote:
Dave Nadler wrote: Careful ! It depends on the glider, launch mechanism, and weather. "It depends" is good advice from Dave. to further illustrate the point, * in a nose dragger, you'd be generally advised to hold the stick back to get the skid / nose wheel off the ground ASAP. However, if this nose dragger happens to a 2-33 and the tow plane makes an abrupt start, the skid will come off the ground by itself and the tail will slam onto the ground and there's nothing that you can do about it. You'd be well advised to start with the stick full forward in this case. On a calm wind day, The starting position of the stick is not too important, IMHO, because the controls are relatively ineffective at the start. When the wind blows, it's another story. Tony V. Not to be overly facetious, but if you are positioning the primary controls based on directions you took off the Internet, you are likely to end up a bit behind the glider. One of the main ideas in flight training is to develop a strong sense of what you want the airplane to do under any circumstance and how you need to manipulate the controls to get the airplane to do exactly that. A mechanistic approach to flying will inevitably get you into trouble. This, of course, is why when you ask what seems to be a simple, mechanical question you get a dozen (or more!) replies with a lot of "it depends" included. Having said that, I know it isn't super helpful to someone with less than a handful of lessons. I think you've gotten a sense from the replies that there are many differences that determine the right answer. Differences in: glider configuration (tailwheel - swiveling or fixed versus nosewheel/skid AND cockpit loading/cg), wind conditions (stong/weak, head/cross), tow type and profile (aero/winch, fast/slow acceleration), wing runner performance (pointed down the runway with wings level vs all sorts of messed up attitudes). What you need to do in one circumstance can be totally different for another. THAT said, generally with a glider with a fixed tailwheel that tends to sit on the tail with the pilots aboard, reasonable wind conditions, a straight and true wing run and an aero tow behind a towplane with average power for the density altitude (forgot to put that one on my list), your first instinct should be to push the stick modestly forward once you have a little airspeed to get the tailwheel off the ground so you can steer with the rudder and to put the wing at a normal flying angle of attack so that the glider doesn't balloon off the runway once it gets flying speed. Again - you are the pilot. You will need to understand the balance of all the forces on the glider and how moving the controls will change that in ways that are predictable. 9B |
#7
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Correct way of holding the stick during ground roll?
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#8
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Correct way of holding the stick during ground roll?
I like Paul's answer.. and that is how I instruct my students.
But the best answer is.. "What your instructor tells you". BT "sisu1a" wrote in message ... For a glider with a tail wheel, which is correct? --Michael Forward for a taildragger, to get the hockey puck (in the case of the L23, other taildraggers have nice pneumatic tailwheels) off the ground as soon as possible and begin 'flying' on one wheel. Stick back for a nose dragger, to get the skid/nosewheel up asap. In both cases use whatever amount of stick req to keep it balanced on the one wheel once until the plane is actually ready to lift off... Most gliders have a tailwheel... but the L23 is a taildragger. The tailwheel on the nosedraggers is generally for ground handling. -Paul |
#9
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Correct way of holding the stick during ground roll?
When flying a 2-33 or 2-22, which have high wings supported by struts and which normally rest on their nose skids because the main wheel is aft of the CG, rapid acceleration and light cabin load will allow the nose to rapidly rise and the tail to bang in a way that is good niether for the airframe nor the psyche. Furthermore, you will expose a lot of wing to the propwash of the towplane, and in the case of a Pawnee, that can be substantial. With your nose high and strong propwash, you will get a rapid and sometimes nearly uncontrollable roll movement to the right. It will come into control within a moment or two, but those two moments are exciting, even for veteran 2-33ers. Lesson: pay attention to loading and if you think you are lighter than average, ask the tow pilot to go easy on the throttle in the start of the roll. Then you need to tell your tow pilot to be a little more gentle with throttle application. Even with light students in the front seat, smoother application of the tow throttle can keep the nose from rocketing up while still providing enough acceleration to provide roll and pitch control. BT |
#10
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Correct way of holding the stick during ground roll?
Steve Leonard wrote:
My suggestioin would be stick forward to get the tail in the air. This way, you are in control of the airplane. If you leave the tail in the ground, the airplane will take off when it wants to, leaving you to react to what it has just done. I believe your task is to make the airplane do what you want it to do, and not to try to catch up with what it just did. Steve's method is the commonly used one on a good runway surface (and a cross wind is not a significant factor), as it's easier to control the glider; however, keeping the tail on the ground is a standard method for soft field takeoffs, when you want the main wheel weight reduced as fast as possible. It may also be useful on a rough field, when you want to get off the ground as soon as possible. It is the recommended method for both situations in my ASH 26 E flight manual. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly * "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4 * Sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org |
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