Get Rid of Jim Weir at Oshkosh

"Just like fat appliance operator hams they are not advancing the tech, just
taking up space." Quite a statement from someone that apparently supports
70 year old technology, and methods that are all but forgotten. And
forgotten for a reason! I love to see the warbirds, I really do, but
everyone I have ever seen was re-built by an A&P blue collar guy that loves
the warbirds too, while the Owner/pilot stands behind him. He learns the
parts, and the technical talk, but has no real or true understanding of the
70 year old technology, much less a technically advanced, incredably far
more efficient design of today. Can you spell E_G_O? Thats all it is, and
if you let it get in the way like the example below, and endanger my life,
you will be looking for some 70 year old tires to replace the ones on your
bucket of bolts by morning. Fly and like what you want, but a war bird does
not make you better than the gyro-copter or ultra-light pilot, or those with
RV's and Falco's. Statements like ""Then tell tell the little b@$+@rd to
get out of our way." will soon have you pushing on a bicycle pump in the
shade of your wing.

Charlie

By the way, I am a homebuilder and I am a Ham, and that alone probably makes
me smarter than you!



"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
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From: RST Engineering - view profile
Date: Sun, Jul 30 2006 10:37 pm
Email: "RST Engineering"
Groups: rec.aviation.homebuilt, rec.aviation.piloting
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I'm prejudiced. Of course I'm prejudiced. In 5000+ flight hours, I've
never come as close to a midair as I did at Oshkosh 1999. Oshkosh
Tower:
"BlueOnBlue Cessna, number three for runway 27. Ercoupe put it on the
numbers. Flight of three T6s, cross over runway 27, right downwind for
runway 27, caution the Cessna at the gravel pit."

(Warbird flight leader) "OK fellers, let's show them what a warbird
arrival
is like."

The Cessna is looking, looking, and turns downwind. The copilot
screams,
"Oh, my God " and the pilot turns hard left, only to see two wings
perhaps
fifty feet below. Tower tells warbirds that they nearly had a midair
with a
Cessna. Warbird flight leader, "Then tell tell the little b@$+@rd to
get
out of our way."

Of course he has no tape of this. I guarantee someone would if it
happened.

I've about had it with the arrogant warbird *******s. The only reason
that
there are warbirds at Oshkosh is that Pope Paul flew a warbird and
wanted to
invite his cronies.

Pope Paul is out to pasture. Nobody else at Oshkosh gets gas money
except
the warbirds. Guess where the gas money is coming from? Your inflated
entry ticket prices. You are paying for those stupid idiots to
aggrandize
World War II, which damned few of us can relate to.

So this afternoon, one of the WWII warbird people who has more money
than
good sense, and who never learned how to clear the taxiway in front of
his
aircraft, killed one of our own. There has to be some sort of payback
for
this sort of stupidity.

Warbirds, you are not welcome at Oshkosh.



No it's you, Jim Weir, and your failed repeatedly halfass electronics
company selling halfass crap like Heil and MFJ do to the hams, to
aviation, which is not welcome.

Warbirds ARE aviation, you dork. Homebuilding is yuppies having RVs
and Falcos built with expensive paint jobs and piece of **** Lycomings
(wait, that's redundant....) by hired gun A&Ps. Just like fat appliance
operator hams they are not advancing the tech, just taking up space. I
hope the next Administration appoints a FAA Administrator DEDICATED to
kicking Richard van Grunsven's and especially that esculent c*cks*ck*r
Alfred Scott's asses all over town. Lycoming loving homos.


You, Jim Weir, are a goofy halfass. Go hang out with Bob Heil and John
Simonton and Don Lancaster and all the other halfass electronic geeks
and leave the class to warbirders.

You low rent halfass. And you have the ass to c**tmouth IFR service
monitors....use a Ramsey, assmunch.

Bret Ludwig wrote:
Jerry Springer wrote:


Once again you show the world how amazingly stupid you are Butwig.
99% of RV's are built by average guys that are by no means rich Yuppies
myself included.


Where do you get your statistics, you assmunch?


Well stupidwig, I am a neighbor of Van's

If hired guns all went away Van's would lose half or more their
business overnight and RVG admitted as much a few years ago.


I will be sure to ask him next time I see him if he made that statement.
I have been flying my RV-6 for 18 years and know a lot of builders and
RV pilots and all this propaganda that you are trying to put out is just
not true.

Why don't you tell us what it is you do and what you are building from
plans and why you have such a bad attitude. What has homebuilt aircraft
industry done to you????

Jerry Springer wrote:
Bret Ludwig wrote:
Jerry Springer wrote:


I will be sure to ask him next time I see him if he made that statement.
I have been flying my RV-6 for 18 years and know a lot of builders and
RV pilots and all this propaganda that you are trying to put out is just
not true.

Why don't you tell us what it is you do and what you are building from
plans and why you have such a bad attitude. What has homebuilt aircraft
industry done to you????

I was a production worker at Cessan Pawnee, four years. Told the truth
to the FAA inspector, it was my ass. Went to Grumman Long Island, two
years, laid off. Rockwell Collins, Cedar Rapids, laid off.

Finally gave up on aircraft in 1994. Homebuilts are a great idea but
they have diverted all the capital from aircraft manufacturing. It's
like the old madam's lament, We can't sell it anymore what with these
college girls giving it away.

For the record I think there is room enough for warbirds and
homebuilts both, and factory airplanes too. But I see sons of whores
like Alfred who are point blank exploiting the Experimental Amateur
Built class to sell what amounts to a factory built airplane without
the expense of actually hiring people. Richard started out as a
homebuilder himself unlike Alfred, but it's gotten to the same thing.

Bret Ludwig wrote:
Your ass sucks buttermilk. There are THREE RVs under construction that
I know of at the closest airport to my house. All 3 are mainly being
built by hired guns. One owner is a car dealer the other two are
doctors. The hired guns are working for cash off the books. One is a
helo mechanic for the county and the other two are laid off TWA guys
who are sheetmetal wizards. The local FBO has a policy he will fire
anyone working on airplanes outside of his shop but he can't say so in
print. He starts grads of the local A&P mill (a ********) at $10 an
hour and won't hire ex airline people even if they would work for his
****ty wages.

Gee Bret, you seem to have a good point to make here, but the message is
hidden behind your opening line and profanity. You catch more flies
with honey than with vinegar.

("Jim Carriere" wrote)
Your ass sucks buttermilk.

Gee Bret, you seem to have a good point to make here, but the message is
hidden behind your opening line and profanity. You catch more flies with
honey than with vinegar.


I understand that much of the charm with those expressions is their flight
of fancy, their detachment from convention, their whimsical approach to
reality, the absurdness of their suppositions, etc, etc, etc.

Your ass sucks buttermilk? I'm sorry, I don't get it.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~genepool/amerispeak.htm


Mont (obeying the Prime Directive) black

Bret Ludwig wrote:
Your ass sucks buttermilk. There are THREE RVs under construction
that
I know of at the closest airport to my house. All 3 are mainly being
built by hired guns. One owner is a car dealer the other two are
doctors. The hired guns are working for cash off the books. One is a
helo mechanic for the county and the other two are laid off TWA guys
who are sheetmetal wizards. The local FBO has a policy he will fire
anyone working on airplanes outside of his shop but he can't say so
in print. He starts grads of the local A&P mill (a ********) at $10
an hour and won't hire ex airline people even if they would work for
his ****ty wages.

Hrm Brett, what is your personal hostility to these folks getting there
RV's built with hired help??? Also, this may or may not be the case
with these particular RVs, but to meet the 51% rule, only 51% of the
TASKS have to be completed by an amateur builder. So, you've installed
one rib, you've installed them all. You buck one rivet, you've bucked
them all.

That's how many of the real quick build kits get prior approval by the
FAA, for instance the new Zodiac 601XL kit, the builder comes to class
and builds a full-flying tail section under the supervision of the
Zenith folks. The remainder of the plane is then shipped, essentially
DONE except for just closing the wings, which have already been final
drilled and clecoed.

What is the personal threat to you?? Or are you just one of these guys
who cant stand to see anyone have something nicer than you???


--
-- ET :-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

ET wrote:
Bret Ludwig wrote:

Your ass sucks buttermilk. There are THREE RVs under construction
that
I know of at the closest airport to my house. All 3 are mainly being
built by hired guns. One owner is a car dealer the other two are
doctors. The hired guns are working for cash off the books. One is a
helo mechanic for the county and the other two are laid off TWA guys
who are sheetmetal wizards. The local FBO has a policy he will fire
anyone working on airplanes outside of his shop but he can't say so
in print. He starts grads of the local A&P mill (a ********) at $10
an hour and won't hire ex airline people even if they would work for
his ****ty wages.


Hrm Brett, what is your personal hostility to these folks getting there
RV's built with hired help??? Also, this may or may not be the case
with these particular RVs, but to meet the 51% rule, only 51% of the
TASKS have to be completed by an amateur builder. So, you've installed
one rib, you've installed them all. You buck one rivet, you've bucked
them all.

That's how many of the real quick build kits get prior approval by the
FAA, for instance the new Zodiac 601XL kit, the builder comes to class
and builds a full-flying tail section under the supervision of the
Zenith folks. The remainder of the plane is then shipped, essentially
DONE except for just closing the wings, which have already been final
drilled and clecoed.

What is the personal threat to you?? Or are you just one of these guys
who cant stand to see anyone have something nicer than you???




I think this message posted earlier by Ludwig explains it all.
And that is he can only get it from the old madam because the
college girls won't give it to him. ;-)




Begin Ludwig qoute ===================================

" I was a production worker at Cessan Pawnee, four years. Told the truth
to the FAA inspector, it was my ass. Went to Grumman Long Island, two
years, laid off. Rockwell Collins, Cedar Rapids, laid off.

Finally gave up on aircraft in 1994. Homebuilts are a great idea but
they have diverted all the capital from aircraft manufacturing. It's
like the old madam's lament, We can't sell it anymore what with these
college girls giving it away."

You have seen 3 RV's that are questionably being built by hired guns
but I have seen close to 30 RV's being constructed over the last few
years and not a single one of them was being built by "hired guns".
They were all being built by the individuals who were the owners. I
have seen a few Lancair's, especially the Lancair IVP but never an RV.





Bret Ludwig wrote:
Jerry springer wrote:


Old Bret has always had a hair up his butt about Van because Van is
successful with the most popular homebuilt aircraft in the world and
Fu**wig is a ignorant loser.


It's popular because of the yuppies.


As I said you don't have a clue what you are talking about and it showa
once again. YOU DUDWIG = stupid


Your ass sucks buttermilk. There are THREE RVs under construction that
I know of at the closest airport to my house. All 3 are mainly being
built by hired guns. One owner is a car dealer the other two are
doctors. The hired guns are working for cash off the books. One is a
helo mechanic for the county and the other two are laid off TWA guys
who are sheetmetal wizards. The local FBO has a policy he will fire
anyone working on airplanes outside of his shop but he can't say so in
print. He starts grads of the local A&P mill (a ********) at $10 an
hour and won't hire ex airline people even if they would work for his
****ty wages.

From your other post to this thread, if you've got all that experience
building production planes, why don't you start your own business and
become a "hired gun" and build homebuilts planes for others who don't
really want to build...

Scott



Jim Carriere wrote:
Bret Ludwig wrote:

Your ass sucks buttermilk. There are THREE RVs under construction that
I know of at the closest airport to my house. All 3 are mainly being
built by hired guns. One owner is a car dealer the other two are
doctors. The hired guns are working for cash off the books. One is a
helo mechanic for the county and the other two are laid off TWA guys
who are sheetmetal wizards. The local FBO has a policy he will fire
anyone working on airplanes outside of his shop but he can't say so in
print. He starts grads of the local A&P mill (a ********) at $10 an
hour and won't hire ex airline people even if they would work for his
****ty wages.


Gee Bret, you seem to have a good point to make here, but the message is
hidden behind your opening line and profanity. You catch more flies
with honey than with vinegar.

Scott wrote:
From your other post to this thread, if you've got all that experience
building production planes, why don't you start your own business and
become a "hired gun" and build homebuilts planes for others who don't
really want to build...


Then I would be running an aircraft factory....albeit a lousy one.

Good aircraft factories build good factory built airplanes, ones
designed for the strengths and such as they are, weaknesses of factory
production, with consistent tooling and the use of people with the
skills earned only in a factory setting. Most homebuilts would be lousy
factory built airplanes and vice versa. That's particularly true of the
Falco, designed to be built in a nation and time of skilled artisans
earning meager pay-most not owning a car-not wealthy rank beginners.

"Driven one rivet, driven them all" is in fact the single goddamned
dumbest thing I have ever heard. And dangerous. You are not an aircraft
worker until you have driven ten or twenty thousand rivets, each
checked by an inspector and the failures flagged (and there will be
some) and you have to stand there hands in pockets watching the other
guy centerpunch, drill out and replace your bad rivet while half the
damn plant is watching you. (Been there done that!) It's better you
drive NO rivets than think you are a riveter with a couple of dozen, or
hundred, under your belt.

I have driven about enough rivets to be dangerous. In a factory
setting I'd be okay after a couple training sessions, but you wouldn't
want me doing and signing off my own work. That's why despite having
the requisite experience I never went for my A&P-I did the written but
not the O&P- I knew some day that damn paper would burn a hole in my
pocket and it would be my ass.

Let RVG get a type certificate, hire experienced aircraft workers and
crank a few thousand out. He'd probably make a lot of money, but it
would interfere with his hobbies, so he won't.