Aw ****s and Bravo Zulus

Jumping in with my dad's aw ****s.

1) Hard wheels up in an A-3 at Whidbey. Tower had visual and didn't
question the missing landing light. This was a touch-and-go and crew was
lucky to walk away without broken backs. I posted the pic on the
Skywarrior website.


2) A-3 Cockpit flooded with av fuel in flight - hundreds of gallons. Crew
was almost overwhelmed and blinded by fumes. afraid to bail out due to the
chutes being soaked with fuel, afraid to key a mic and go down in flames.


Somebody jump in with some details on a stunt that caused a few aw ****s.
I recall my father describing that in order to really have a **** hot
take-off, it was possible in an F-8 or F-4 to select gear up on the take-off
roll. A weight-on-wheels sensor would prevent the retraction until
airborne. One or more planes were turned into sleds when a change in grade
took the weight off the wheels prior to rotation.

Any details on this?

A weight-on-wheels sensor would prevent the retraction until
airborne.
Yes, but hit a slight hump in the runway (while on rollout) can extend the
gear just that couple inches it takes to make the "weight on wheels" switch.
Then it's "AW ****" time again.

Many aircraft have a MLG designed to be slightly "over center" with some
weight on the gear. This design *helps* prevent gear retraction on deck. I
know- we've all read the safety messages detailing how somebody had a
"stupid attack" and raised the gear while on deck. And I think some of you
folks here are the ones we read about :-)

Sure looks cool to see the gear come up as soon as the aircraft lifts.
Especially the way the Air Force guys like to take off- Fast, and real low
for (it seems) the length of the runway. And they got some real LONG
runways. The Navy pilots make up for that as they have the SHORTEST runways
(you know- the ugly gray ones that keep us away from home for so long).

Kinda longwinded here. Too much coffee this afternoon.

Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
and getting further away every day ;-)





"C.D.Damron" wrote in message
news:lCTzb.231342$Dw6.816845@attbi_s02...
Jumping in with my dad's aw ****s.

1) Hard wheels up in an A-3 at Whidbey. Tower had visual and didn't
question the missing landing light. This was a touch-and-go and crew was
lucky to walk away without broken backs. I posted the pic on the
Skywarrior website.


2) A-3 Cockpit flooded with av fuel in flight - hundreds of gallons.
Crew
was almost overwhelmed and blinded by fumes. afraid to bail out due to the
chutes being soaked with fuel, afraid to key a mic and go down in flames.


Somebody jump in with some details on a stunt that caused a few aw ****s.
I recall my father describing that in order to really have a **** hot
take-off, it was possible in an F-8 or F-4 to select gear up on the
take-off
roll. A weight-on-wheels sensor would prevent the retraction until
airborne. One or more planes were turned into sleds when a change in
grade
took the weight off the wheels prior to rotation.

Any details on this?

stephen- Would that be the same (Dan) Bunting that became Skipper in '102
during
the early 80's? BRBR

That is correct. He was also my flight lead in VF-33, when I was der nugget,
John (Shadow)Horan was in my trunk..'They' say ya learn a lot from your first
lead and RIO...that is truly an understatement....

Also took John Horan on my 'snuffed A/B, compressor stall' cat shot...he took
it all so cooly, I jus about **** me britches...stayed with the A/C, but he
said he had his hand on the lower handle...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

CDR,
You traveled in good company. Some of my Diamond Pig buddies had nothing
but praise
for Dan Bunting as Skipper of 102.

The Skippers that I had were Frog Allen, Bear Voght, John Best (another
Great Skipper),
Don Sogga, and some guy named Burnett? (I just met the guy and then
PCS'd to Miramar)
We had a thoroughly competent R10 in '33, we AQs thought really knew his
AWG-10
well and didn't try to baffle us with bull**** if he didn't know what
was going on, during
postflight system status debriefs.
He went on to skipper VF-103. His name was Don Santapola.

Your 'snuffed A/B, compressor stall' cat shot, I assume was in an F-4,
saw PLAT footage
of an '84 F-14 do the same, stall, roll inverted, aircrew punched (late)
vertically into water,
bird coming down on top of them. You've probably seen the same film.

What was the time frame for your time in '33, if I might be permitted to
inquire ( I'm trying
to get an idea of what your colorscheme was at the time, as sort or an
unofficial VF-33
Scheme/Marking history illustration that I am working on. Hellcat-Tomcat
with everything
in between)?

Stephen
http://www.stephenmudgett.com

Pechs1 wrote:

stephen- Would that be the same (Dan) Bunting that became Skipper in '102
during
the early 80's? BRBR

That is correct. He was also my flight lead in VF-33, when I was der nugget,
John (Shadow)Horan was in my trunk..'They' say ya learn a lot from your first
lead and RIO...that is truly an understatement....

Also took John Horan on my 'snuffed A/B, compressor stall' cat shot...he took
it all so cooly, I jus about **** me britches...stayed with the A/C, but he
said he had his hand on the lower handle...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Stephen- The Skippers that I had were Frog Allen, Bear Voght, BRBR

Wait a minute, we were in VF-33 at the same time, Allen was CO when I was
there, followed by Steve Phimister. John Voght took over as XO from Rabbit
Campbell in VF-151(?)..

Red Best was ComFitFud when I was XO of VX-4..he got me VF-126...

stephen Your 'snuffed A/B, compressor stall' cat shot, I assume was in an
F-4,
saw PLAT footage
of an '84 F-14 do the same, stall, roll inverted, aircrew punched (late)
vertically into water,
bird coming down on top of them. You've probably seen the same film. BRBR

Was 'the' training folm for the F-14 RAG as to what not to do if you lost an
engine on cat shot in the Turley'...

I just went off flat, RIO 'mentioned' for me to rotate, I pulled back and
promptly 'departed'' a wee bit and A/C made a really nice right turn across the
bow(I was on cat 3 r 4)...glad nobody was getting launched at the time. Lowered
nose, lots of left rudder and flew it away, while 'Boss and CO was harping on
the UHF about crossing the stinkin' bow...

My big chance to blow off the centerline and all the missiles(2Aim-7/2 Aim-9,
centerline)...but didn't..that came later in VF-151, with F-4S....
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Pechs1 wrote:
Wait a minute, we were in VF-33 at the same time, Allen was CO when I was
there, followed by Steve Phimister. John Voght took over as XO from Rabbit
Campbell in VF-151(?)..

I wish my cruise book had not been stolen, I'd look you up. Frog Allen
was followed by Fred Bear Voght,
then John Burner Best. This is from 5/79 to 12/83.

My big chance to blow off the centerline and all the missiles (2Aim-7/2
Aim-9,
centerline)...but didn't..that came later in VF-151, with F-4S....

One of the many thrills one could derive from working the roof was watching
the Ordnance and centerline jettison after a bridle slap perf'd the centerline
on the F-4. It got everyone's attention, from the spectator's point of view.
No doubt a similar attitude was taken by the Aircrew (albeit a bit more intense).

Stephen

stephen- I'd look you up. Frog Allen
was followed by Fred Bear Voght,
then John Burner Best. This is from 5/79 to 12/83. BRBR

Yer right...I'm confusing Frog Allen withj somebody else..

stephen One of the many thrills one could derive from working the roof was
watching
the Ordnance and centerline jettison after a bridle slap perf'd the centerline
on the F-4. It got everyone's attention, from the spectator's point of view.
No doubt a similar attitude was taken by the Aircrew (albeit a bit more
intense). BRBR

I had more than a few but most of the time you didn't feel it, a call from a
'good' Airboss when he calmly said, " bridle slap, come outta A/B"...

P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Could someone explain to a blackshoe what a "bridle slap" is/was. Assume this
had nothing to do with martrimony :-)

james- Could someone explain to a blackshoe what a "bridle slap" is/was.
Assume this
had nothing to do with martrimony :-)
BRBR


Pardon my spelling up front. F-4 was launched with a bridle, big cable strung
from catapult to two hooks under A/C. Unless ya wanted to throw it away each
launch, it was held by a rope made setup called the vanselm. It consisted of
some rope that were attached to brass sliders that went the length of the cat
track(brass for no sparks). Sometimes these sliders would pop out, smacking the
F-4 centerline tank, puncturing it, with thr A/B igniting the fuel that was
a'sreaming out. No big deal, just come outta A/B, fire stopped. Either let the
fuel drain out or jettison CL before recovery, look for a tanker or yo-yo(make
the recovery immediately following your launch).
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

CDR Chisholm explained to the "Blackshoe":
F-4 was launched with a bridle, big cable strung
from catapult to two hooks under A/C.
Here's a couple good photos (in this case an A-4 Whale- but the same idea):

http://members.cox.net/eholmes333/soun-pg5.html


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
and getting further away every day ;-)

"Pechs1" wrote in message
...
james- Could someone explain to a blackshoe what a "bridle slap" is/was.
Assume this
had nothing to do with martrimony :-)
BRBR


Pardon my spelling up front. F-4 was launched with a bridle, big cable
strung
from catapult to two hooks under A/C. Unless ya wanted to throw it away
each
launch, it was held by a rope made setup called the vanselm. It consisted
of
some rope that were attached to brass sliders that went the length of the
cat
track(brass for no sparks). Sometimes these sliders would pop out,
smacking the
F-4 centerline tank, puncturing it, with thr A/B igniting the fuel that
was
a'sreaming out. No big deal, just come outta A/B, fire stopped. Either let
the
fuel drain out or jettison CL before recovery, look for a tanker or
yo-yo(make
the recovery immediately following your launch).
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer