Tornado - fast belly landing

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:29:22 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

The problem with belly landings in high performance airplanes isn't that
they can't be done, but rather the amount of room needed to do it
successfully factored into an equation that allows enough room to do it with
the touchdown speeds necessary and the odds of not hitting something during
the attempt. Generally, it's considered a fool's move. That being said, it's
entirely possible to do it, and it's indeed been done when good terrain
choice was obvious to the pilot, or circumstances were such that altitude or
seat/canopy malfunction precluded a safe ejection.
Dudley Henriques

When I first started in the business, I was amazed at the number of
cautions regarding belly landing. For most high performance jets the
flight manual suggests bailout/ejection as preferable in all
situations.

Then one day it dawned on me...."Eureka", I cried!

Consider what happens to your standard land vehicle, i.e. passenger
automobile, when it leaves the paved surface at sixty miles per hour.
The results are usually pretty disasterous.

Now factor in that the auto is steel frame and reinforced doors, motor
in front, etc. Aircraft are light skinned, monocoque, motor continuing
forward through the cockpit, etc.

Add in that the landing speed, under optimal conditions will be in the
140 mph or faster range (remember to convert knots to MPH.)

Now, go back and take that car into the boonies at that speed.

Survivable? I think I'll try out this new-fangled explosive seat
thingie....

BUFF wrote:

"MichaelJP" wrote in message
. ..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3292551.stm

What do you think, would the airframe be a write-off?

Would the USAF do this or just eject as the safer, although more expensive
option?

- Michael


I suspect that the aircrew were given the choice.

I saw a Vampire do a bellyflop way back when. Pilot was given the option
of grass or concrete, and took the latter. Sweet touchdown, and very
gentle stop. Played merry hell with one of the (wooden) bulkheads, but
it was flying soon after. Pilot was back up there that same afternoon.

ronh


--
"People do not make decisions on facts, rather,
how they feel about the facts" Robert Consedine

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:29:22 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

The problem with belly landings in high performance airplanes isn't that
they can't be done, but rather the amount of room needed to do it
successfully factored into an equation that allows enough room to do it
with
the touchdown speeds necessary and the odds of not hitting something
during
the attempt. Generally, it's considered a fool's move. That being said,
it's
entirely possible to do it, and it's indeed been done when good terrain
choice was obvious to the pilot, or circumstances were such that altitude
or
seat/canopy malfunction precluded a safe ejection.
Dudley Henriques

When I first started in the business, I was amazed at the number of
cautions regarding belly landing. For most high performance jets the
flight manual suggests bailout/ejection as preferable in all
situations.

Then one day it dawned on me...."Eureka", I cried!

Consider what happens to your standard land vehicle, i.e. passenger
automobile, when it leaves the paved surface at sixty miles per hour.
The results are usually pretty disasterous.

Now factor in that the auto is steel frame and reinforced doors, motor
in front, etc. Aircraft are light skinned, monocoque, motor continuing
forward through the cockpit, etc.

Add in that the landing speed, under optimal conditions will be in the
140 mph or faster range (remember to convert knots to MPH.)

Now, go back and take that car into the boonies at that speed.

Survivable? I think I'll try out this new-fangled explosive seat
thingie....

You actually cried EUREKA??? I've ALWAYS wanted to do that, but I was afraid
one of those balloon thingies would form over my head; pick me up and I'd
float away. :-)))))

I'm with you all the way on the belly landings. Even in the Mustang I was
always worried; not so much about the landing speed if I had to put it down
with the gear up, but the radiator scoop. Man, that thing was like an open
maw down there. High performance jets will do you in in a heartbeat fooling
around with this stuff!!
I think it was Tom Sneva, the Indy driver who said this. Some idiot reporter
asked him right after he smacked the wall at 200 plus whether or not he
thought about crashing very much. I think his answer was something like,
" Have you ever seen a human body after it impacts through a crash in an
aluminum can at 200mph? Well I have. Hell man, if we actually took the time
to sit down and think about what happens, I doubt if any of us would even
get in one of these damn things more or less race it". :-)
I think then the reporter asked him if he had an second thoughts about the
crash he just went through. Sneva said, "Listen up here.
If "if's" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd ALL have a Merry
Christmas!!!"
You gotta love Sneva!!! Many is the time I'd have loved to say this to a
reporter!! :-))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 18:00:11 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
.. .

Then one day it dawned on me...."Eureka", I cried!


You actually cried EUREKA??? I've ALWAYS wanted to do that, but I was afraid
one of those balloon thingies would form over my head; pick me up and I'd
float away. :-)))))

Dudley Henriques

Actually, I have it on good authority that the last guy to REALLY cry
"EUREKA" was Archimedes. He yelled it to distract his wife who was
PO'd about all the water on the bathroom floor.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 18:00:11 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
.. .

Then one day it dawned on me...."Eureka", I cried!


You actually cried EUREKA??? I've ALWAYS wanted to do that, but I was
afraid
one of those balloon thingies would form over my head; pick me up and I'd
float away. :-)))))

Dudley Henriques

Actually, I have it on good authority that the last guy to REALLY cry
"EUREKA" was Archimedes. He yelled it to distract his wife who was
PO'd about all the water on the bathroom floor.

No wonder she was ****ed at him. Didn't he realize that with the tub full to
the brim like that, when he put his fat ass in there the water was going to
spill out all over the place? :-)))) Actually, I guess he didn't because
word has it.......at least in Navy circles anyway, that when he got in, the
biggest "idea balloon" in history formed right over his head as he sat in
the tub waiting for the wife bashing, and ship building has never been the
same since!!!!
:-)
Dudley

Dudley asked:
You actually cried EUREKA??? I've ALWAYS wanted to do that, but I was afraid
one of those balloon thingies would form over my head; pick me up and I'd
float away. :-)))))

I think the first time that I thought it all the way through, my response was
"OH SH*T", then I thought about about the warning that I recieved about the
knee clearance on the B-57 ballastic seat and my second thought on the subject
was "I'M SCREWED". Then considering the alternate way out on the A model B-57
was through the side entrance door my thought changed to "I could have gone
into the infantry"

Oxmoron1
MFE

"OXMORON1" wrote in message
...
Dudley asked:
You actually cried EUREKA??? I've ALWAYS wanted to do that, but I was
afraid
one of those balloon thingies would form over my head; pick me up and I'd
float away. :-)))))

I think the first time that I thought it all the way through, my response
was
"OH SH*T", then I thought about about the warning that I recieved about
the
knee clearance on the B-57 ballastic seat and my second thought on the
subject
was "I'M SCREWED". Then considering the alternate way out on the A model
B-57
was through the side entrance door my thought changed to "I could have
gone
into the infantry"

Oxmoron1
MFE

I remember thinking the same thing climbing into an A4. I stuck my legs down
those tunnels and said to myself, "I don't give a **** WHAT the f**c
McDonnell Douglas says, if I have to get out of this GD thing, my legs are
staying down there for sure!!!"
:-)))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:29:22 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


Add in that the landing speed, under optimal conditions will be in the
140 mph or faster range (remember to convert knots to MPH.)

Now, go back and take that car into the boonies at that speed.

Survivable? I think I'll try out this new-fangled explosive seat
thingie....


I just listened to an interview with the RAF aircrew.

It seems they have zero zero seats so the plan was to try and put it down
on the runway but punch out it it started to slew off onto the grass
They reported that the landing was actually quite straightforward
and the impact was gentle.


Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:29:22 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


Add in that the landing speed, under optimal conditions will be in the
140 mph or faster range (remember to convert knots to MPH.)

Now, go back and take that car into the boonies at that speed.

Survivable? I think I'll try out this new-fangled explosive seat
thingie....


I just listened to an interview with the RAF aircrew.

It seems they have zero zero seats so the plan was to try and put it down
on the runway but punch out it it started to slew off onto the grass
They reported that the landing was actually quite straightforward
and the impact was gentle.

Just be advised that a planned wheels up in a high performance jet on a
prepared surface is one thing. A belly landing off in the boonies is quite
another.
The crew in this case seems like they had a plan. I might have tried this
one myself :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

"SteveM8597" avait écrit le 05/12/2003 :

The F-4 would land gear up with external tanks mounted. Jack the plane, drop
the gear and tanks, and go fly again.

Same happened with some Skyhawks.

--
Sergio