Found Loose Cylinder Bolt

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news: Were all the bolts lose, or just one?

As for what we could visualize, just the one bolt appears loose. The
mechanic who installed the jugs has said: "I torqued them to
specification and have the paperwork to prove my wrench is correct."
He has advised us to tighten it up and see if will seat and stay
tight.

If not, the engine comes apart to helicoil the receiving end for the
thru bolt, is what I'm told.

Greg Hopp

Tina Marie wrote in message ...
With that said, you have two choices he

A) Put a torque wrench on it, tighten it and then fly it. Torque
settings are in the Lycoming Direct Drive Overhaul Manual (~$17 for a
reprint from Aircraft Spruce, or find the equivalent Continental
publication). Check it every few hours.

B) Take it to your A&P. He will pull out his torque wrench, his copy
of the Lycoming Direct Drive Overhaul Manual, tighen it, and tell you
to check it every few hours.

It's up to you.

Tina Marie
Tripacer N3653P

The on-field mechanic says, from a liability standpoint, he's going to
crack and retorque each and every nut on all four jugs. 8-10 hrs
labor. Another (off field) mechanic says, if the nut won't tighten,
we're into a whole different issue wherein the case will need to be
split, sent out and the threads repaired (helicoil?) inside the case.
Now, what is otherwise a simple job costs a couple grand for the labor
alone.

Greg H.
Cols, OH

Orval Fairbairn wrote in message:
According to my Lycomung Overhaul Manual, the cylinder torque settings
a

Thanks for your help Orval. We're going to the hangar tomorrow night
with a borrowed torque wrench for some testing.

Greg H.
Cols, OH

The torque should have been checked after 25 or 50 hours. Your
mechanic should have specified this. Instead he throws meaningless
certifications at you. If he's studious enough to have his wrenches
checked, why didn't he tell you about retorquing, or even use a bit of
torque seal on the nuts? In any event, stop crying, have the cylinder
retorqued (all the nuts/bolts) use torque seal and have them rechecked
and torqued in 25 hours.

On 17 Feb 2004 07:10:45 -0800, (Greg Hopp) wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news: Were all the bolts lose, or just one?

As for what we could visualize, just the one bolt appears loose. The
mechanic who installed the jugs has said: "I torqued them to
specification and have the paperwork to prove my wrench is correct."
He has advised us to tighten it up and see if will seat and stay
tight.

If not, the engine comes apart to helicoil the receiving end for the
thru bolt, is what I'm told.

Greg Hopp

On 17 Feb 2004 09:48:06 -0800, (Greg Hopp) wrote:

The on-field mechanic says, from a liability standpoint, he's going to
crack and retorque each and every nut on all four jugs. 8-10 hrs
labor. Another (off field) mechanic says, if the nut won't tighten,
we're into a whole different issue wherein the case will need to be
split, sent out and the threads repaired (helicoil?) inside the case.
Now, what is otherwise a simple job costs a couple grand for the labor
alone.

Greg H.
Cols, OH

8 to 10 hours? Does this guy have only one eye and one hand. Ditch
this nit-wit, he's setting up to pay you off with your ow money.

1 - 2 hours to remove and reinstall cowl and baffling

1 - 2 hours to retorque all the nuts with coffee breaks

SHOP THIS WITH OTHER MECHANICS!

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message . ..
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news ..
Tightening sequence: (1/2" first)

This is something I was thinking of. What happens if one comes loose?
Should you just tighten it to thee correct torque, or should the others be
loosened then all tightened in sequence? Maybe even replacing the
gasket? (don't know about gaskets...I would only guess as to the
presence of one)

Paul


Some of those nuts are on studs that pass through the case to hold
it together and to keep the main bearings tight in their bores. A
loosened stud could allow the bearing to rotate a bit if it didn't
have a locating pin in it. Can't remember if the O-200 has one. I know
that the Lycs do. I've seen a centre main rotate in an O-200 while the
cylinders were off and someone rotated the prop. Everything jammed
real tight when we retorqued it.
Rotated bearings cut off their oil supply ports and don't last
long.

Dan

(Greg Hopp) wrote in message . com...
On preflight I noticed a little oil seeping around the bolt on the
pilot's front cylinder...

What kind of oil does this pilot contain? Is it red?

Dan

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in
Should you just tighten it to thee correct torque, or should the others be
loosened then all tightened in sequence? Maybe even replacing the
gasket?
Paul

Paul:
The first mech. I talked to was adamant. It was his butt on the line
liability wise, and if I wanted him to do the job, he was going to
break all the nuts and retorque everything, estimating 8-10 hrs labor.
He also mentioned a "one time seal" that would then likely be a leak
candidate as a result, but he wasn't going to do it any other way.

Greg H.
Cols., OH
"First timer, always learning"

In article ,
"Gene Kearns" wrote:

On 17 Feb 2004 18:02:35 -0800, (Greg Hopp) wrote:

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in
Should you just tighten it to thee correct torque, or should the others be
loosened then all tightened in sequence? Maybe even replacing the
gasket?
Paul

Paul:
The first mech. I talked to was adamant. It was his butt on the line
liability wise, and if I wanted him to do the job, he was going to
break all the nuts and retorque everything, estimating 8-10 hrs labor.
He also mentioned a "one time seal" that would then likely be a leak
candidate as a result, but he wasn't going to do it any other way.

Greg H.
Cols., OH
"First timer, always learning"

Greg, the issue isn't with your mechanic's assessment of the work to
be done. The real issue here is, does it take 2+ hours to torque a
cylinder? I'm pretty meticulous, but 15 minutes a nut is quite a
bit... over the top.

There are issues here, however, where the prevailing torque of
rotating the prop pre- and post- torque should be assessed, but
still... 8-10 hours to accomplish this job in a thorough and
professional manner is highway robbery....


I'm going to be a bit cynical here....

Was the guy with the 8-10 hour estimate the guy who last worked on the
plane? Maybe he was intentionally over-estimating in the hopes that you
would go find somebody else to do the work. Then the last person to
sign off on your engine would be somebody else and if something went
wrong he would be off the hook liability-wise.

Your first mechanic is an idiot but he is going to give you the shaft
for HIS error.
There is some difference in the break away torque of a bolt that has
sat with a preload on it and one that you are tightening to a
specified torque. It takes MORE torque than that specified to start
the nut turning if that nut has sat with a preload for more than a
second. You can be assured that if the nut turns when the specified
torque is applied then it is NOT torqued to the specified amount and
needs to be loosened and retorqued.

The most common cause of cylinder bolts getting loose is PAINT or dirt
under the cylinder flange.

These bolts are critical and must have the required torque.

If you loosen only one nut at a time you should not have to replace
the seal but if you loosen all of the nuts at the same time then there
is a good chance that it will leak because the cylinder will move.

On 17 Feb 2004 18:02:35 -0800, (Greg Hopp) wrote:

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in
Should you just tighten it to thee correct torque, or should the others be
loosened then all tightened in sequence? Maybe even replacing the
gasket?
Paul

Paul:
The first mech. I talked to was adamant. It was his butt on the line
liability wise, and if I wanted him to do the job, he was going to
break all the nuts and retorque everything, estimating 8-10 hrs labor.
He also mentioned a "one time seal" that would then likely be a leak
candidate as a result, but he wasn't going to do it any other way.

Greg H.
Cols., OH
"First timer, always learning"