Night solo XC?

A question to the group. Do you normally fly many night solo cross
country flights? I have been going out to the local airport every couple
months to do some night flying, but it's usually solo just around the patch
to get night current so I can carry a passenger at night. The few times that
I have done cross countries at night, I either have a passenger (usually
pilot rated too) or an instructor (during training a few years ago).

I was going to do a short night XC a couple weeks ago and took off, got
about 10 miles out and didn't 'feel' right so I returned to the pattern. It
was probably just me, but it seemed like some strange noises from the plane
that I don't notice during day flight. If I have a passenger, I'm not as
concerned about flying XC at night. All of my night flights have been when
there is close to a full moon so visibility isn't a factor.

-Greg B.

Hi Greg

There are only 3 times that planes make strange noises -
Over mountains,
Over water,
And at night.

I fly night approx every 2 weeks which gives me full moon and no moon.
If I take off at night I only fly areas that I know.
Lately I have been trying a different tack - I live in a valley
surrounded by lots of ranges of mountains.
Lately I have been flying out and timing my return leg so that I am over
my highest peak as night falls- and then returning home. It's great
experience - and I've heard the engine make lots of noises that I didn't
even know it could make!
Two weeks ago I took off from a Valley airport and couldn't see a thing
- so I circled and climbed until I could see lights in the direction I
wanted to go - and then departed. If you fly for light you won't hit
anything - except the light! How dumb is that ? There's a little tip
that Machado won't tell you

Tony

In article 0joad.218088$MQ5.166822@attbi_s52,
"G. Burkhart" wrote:

A question to the group. Do you normally fly many night solo cross
country flights? I have been going out to the local airport every couple
months to do some night flying, but it's usually solo just around the patch
to get night current so I can carry a passenger at night. The few times that
I have done cross countries at night, I either have a passenger (usually
pilot rated too) or an instructor (during training a few years ago).

I was going to do a short night XC a couple weeks ago and took off, got
about 10 miles out and didn't 'feel' right so I returned to the pattern. It
was probably just me, but it seemed like some strange noises from the plane
that I don't notice during day flight. If I have a passenger, I'm not as
concerned about flying XC at night. All of my night flights have been when
there is close to a full moon so visibility isn't a factor.

-Greg B.




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

Hi Greg

There are only 3 times that planes make strange noises -
Over mountains,
Over water,
And at night.

I fly night approx every 2 weeks which gives me full moon and no moon.
If I take off at night I only fly areas that I know.
Lately I have been trying a different tack - I live in a valley
surrounded by lots of ranges of mountains.
Lately I have been flying out and timing my return leg so that I am over
my highest peak as night falls- and then returning home. It's great
experience - and I've heard the engine make lots of noises that I didn't
even know it could make!
Two weeks ago I took off from a Valley airport and couldn't see a thing
- so I circled and climbed until I could see lights in the direction I
wanted to go - and then departed. If you fly for light you won't hit
anything - except the light! How dumb is that ? There's a little tip
that Machado won't tell you

Tony

In article 0joad.218088$MQ5.166822@attbi_s52,
"G. Burkhart" wrote:

A question to the group. Do you normally fly many night solo cross
country flights? I have been going out to the local airport every couple
months to do some night flying, but it's usually solo just around the patch
to get night current so I can carry a passenger at night. The few times that
I have done cross countries at night, I either have a passenger (usually
pilot rated too) or an instructor (during training a few years ago).

I was going to do a short night XC a couple weeks ago and took off, got
about 10 miles out and didn't 'feel' right so I returned to the pattern. It
was probably just me, but it seemed like some strange noises from the plane
that I don't notice during day flight. If I have a passenger, I'm not as
concerned about flying XC at night. All of my night flights have been when
there is close to a full moon so visibility isn't a factor.

-Greg B.




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

"G. Burkhart" wrote in message
news:0joad.218088$MQ5.166822@attbi_s52...
A question to the group. Do you normally fly many night solo cross
country flights? I have been going out to the local airport every couple
months to do some night flying, but it's usually solo just around the
patch to get night current so I can carry a passenger at night. The few
times that I have done cross countries at night, I either have a passenger
(usually pilot rated too) or an instructor (during training a few years
ago).

"Normally"? Dunno about that...unfortunately, I have been not night current
more often than I have been current the last year or so.

But that said, when I *am* current, yes, most of my night flying is on
cross-countries. Usually not terribly long ones...often less than an hour
of flying, almost always less than two hours. But I've had my share of
300-400 mile night XC as well.

When I practice my night flying, I make it a point to land at airports other
than my home airport. After all, the big challenges during a night flight
have to do with the "instrument flight rules"-like nature of night flying,
which means getting away from a familiar location so that a) you practice
dealing with unfamiliar landmarks and lighting affecting your perception of
aircraft attitude, and b) you practice navigation in a way that really tests
your ability to use the instruments in the airplane effectively.

I was going to do a short night XC a couple weeks ago and took off, got
about 10 miles out and didn't 'feel' right so I returned to the pattern.
It was probably just me, but it seemed like some strange noises from the
plane that I don't notice during day flight.

As Tony alludes to, it does always seem like the airplane hints at problems
when it would be least convenient to have a problem. I think it's
important to keep in mind a couple of things:
-- conservative decision making is usually the best course of action, so
if you don't have confidence in the airplane, aborting the flight is fine
-- anxiety is generally not a great thing to have along with you in the
cockpit; repeatedly aborting flights when the airplane has been shown to be
reliable after an aborted flight may be a sign that one is being too
cautious, and should seek a way to become more comfortable with the
situation (night flying in this case). A good instructor may be helpful,
fly with him at night so he can reassure you that the things you hear going
"bump" in the night aren't anything to worry about.

If I have a passenger, I'm not as concerned about flying XC at night. All
of my night flights have been when there is close to a full moon so
visibility isn't a factor.

If you DO have a passenger, you're not as concerned? That's the exact
opposite from the way many pilots feel. If you wrote what you meant to
write, could you elaborate on the thinking process behind that?

Personally, I try my best to treat every flight the same, with or without
passengers. But if there is a difference, I am slightly more lax with my
own safety than with others'.

Also, you may find it educational to make some night flights in more
challenging conditions. Overcast skies, lower visibility, little or no
moon, that sort of thing. Again, taking an instructor along if this isn't
something you're already reasonably comfortable with is a good idea.

Pete

"G. Burkhart" wrote in message
news:0joad.218088$MQ5.166822@attbi_s52...
A question to the group. Do you normally fly many night solo cross
country flights? I have been going out to the local airport every couple
months to do some night flying, but it's usually solo just around the
patch to get night current so I can carry a passenger at night. The few
times that I have done cross countries at night, I either have a passenger
(usually pilot rated too) or an instructor (during training a few years
ago).

"Normally"? Dunno about that...unfortunately, I have been not night current
more often than I have been current the last year or so.

But that said, when I *am* current, yes, most of my night flying is on
cross-countries. Usually not terribly long ones...often less than an hour
of flying, almost always less than two hours. But I've had my share of
300-400 mile night XC as well.

When I practice my night flying, I make it a point to land at airports other
than my home airport. After all, the big challenges during a night flight
have to do with the "instrument flight rules"-like nature of night flying,
which means getting away from a familiar location so that a) you practice
dealing with unfamiliar landmarks and lighting affecting your perception of
aircraft attitude, and b) you practice navigation in a way that really tests
your ability to use the instruments in the airplane effectively.

I was going to do a short night XC a couple weeks ago and took off, got
about 10 miles out and didn't 'feel' right so I returned to the pattern.
It was probably just me, but it seemed like some strange noises from the
plane that I don't notice during day flight.

As Tony alludes to, it does always seem like the airplane hints at problems
when it would be least convenient to have a problem. I think it's
important to keep in mind a couple of things:
-- conservative decision making is usually the best course of action, so
if you don't have confidence in the airplane, aborting the flight is fine
-- anxiety is generally not a great thing to have along with you in the
cockpit; repeatedly aborting flights when the airplane has been shown to be
reliable after an aborted flight may be a sign that one is being too
cautious, and should seek a way to become more comfortable with the
situation (night flying in this case). A good instructor may be helpful,
fly with him at night so he can reassure you that the things you hear going
"bump" in the night aren't anything to worry about.

If I have a passenger, I'm not as concerned about flying XC at night. All
of my night flights have been when there is close to a full moon so
visibility isn't a factor.

If you DO have a passenger, you're not as concerned? That's the exact
opposite from the way many pilots feel. If you wrote what you meant to
write, could you elaborate on the thinking process behind that?

Personally, I try my best to treat every flight the same, with or without
passengers. But if there is a difference, I am slightly more lax with my
own safety than with others'.

Also, you may find it educational to make some night flights in more
challenging conditions. Overcast skies, lower visibility, little or no
moon, that sort of thing. Again, taking an instructor along if this isn't
something you're already reasonably comfortable with is a good idea.

Pete

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:14:36 GMT, tony roberts
wrote in nospam-C33CC8.22180410102004@shawnews::

If you fly for light you won't hit
anything - except the light! How dumb is that ? There's a little tip
that Machado won't tell you

Too bad JFK, Jr hadn't heard that. On hazy, moonless nights
instrument rating skills are useful.

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:14:36 GMT, tony roberts
wrote in nospam-C33CC8.22180410102004@shawnews::

If you fly for light you won't hit
anything - except the light! How dumb is that ? There's a little tip
that Machado won't tell you

Too bad JFK, Jr hadn't heard that. On hazy, moonless nights
instrument rating skills are useful.

I fly night XCs on a regular basis. I love flying at night,
especially when the visibility is good. The air is smooth, traffic is
easy to spot, and view (both up and down) is incredible.

Night flying definitely involves more risk, so I adjust my flights
accordingly.

1. I fly higher, typically higher than 9k MSL. More time to sort out
problems, more distance to glide. In the midwest, this keeps me
within range of an airport almost all the time.
2. Don't fly in as strong of crosswinds. I find strong crosswinds
difficult to deal with at night. Fortunately, winds tend to calm at
night.
3. Choose my IFR flights very selectively. Although I don't have a
hard rule for this, I basically limit IFR to punching through a high,
thin layer.
4. Fuel flightplanning. Make sure your fuel stops are open when you
get there. Don't just look at airnav.com or the AOPA guide - calling
ahead is critical. I've been burned by this a few times and had to
spend the night somewhere I didn't want to, because the 24hr fuel
depot closed at 10pm.
5. Backups. You can't have enough for a night flight. Multiple
flashlights. Backup radio. Handheld GPS. Good batteries for all.
Also, make sure this stuff is out and accessible (preferably in the
passenger seat).


On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:51:08 GMT, "G. Burkhart"
wrote:

A question to the group. Do you normally fly many night solo cross
country flights? I have been going out to the local airport every couple
months to do some night flying, but it's usually solo just around the patch
to get night current so I can carry a passenger at night. The few times that
I have done cross countries at night, I either have a passenger (usually
pilot rated too) or an instructor (during training a few years ago).

I was going to do a short night XC a couple weeks ago and took off, got
about 10 miles out and didn't 'feel' right so I returned to the pattern. It
was probably just me, but it seemed like some strange noises from the plane
that I don't notice during day flight. If I have a passenger, I'm not as
concerned about flying XC at night. All of my night flights have been when
there is close to a full moon so visibility isn't a factor.

-Greg B.

I fly night XCs on a regular basis. I love flying at night,
especially when the visibility is good. The air is smooth, traffic is
easy to spot, and view (both up and down) is incredible.

Night flying definitely involves more risk, so I adjust my flights
accordingly.

1. I fly higher, typically higher than 9k MSL. More time to sort out
problems, more distance to glide. In the midwest, this keeps me
within range of an airport almost all the time.
2. Don't fly in as strong of crosswinds. I find strong crosswinds
difficult to deal with at night. Fortunately, winds tend to calm at
night.
3. Choose my IFR flights very selectively. Although I don't have a
hard rule for this, I basically limit IFR to punching through a high,
thin layer.
4. Fuel flightplanning. Make sure your fuel stops are open when you
get there. Don't just look at airnav.com or the AOPA guide - calling
ahead is critical. I've been burned by this a few times and had to
spend the night somewhere I didn't want to, because the 24hr fuel
depot closed at 10pm.
5. Backups. You can't have enough for a night flight. Multiple
flashlights. Backup radio. Handheld GPS. Good batteries for all.
Also, make sure this stuff is out and accessible (preferably in the
passenger seat).


On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:51:08 GMT, "G. Burkhart"
wrote:

A question to the group. Do you normally fly many night solo cross
country flights? I have been going out to the local airport every couple
months to do some night flying, but it's usually solo just around the patch
to get night current so I can carry a passenger at night. The few times that
I have done cross countries at night, I either have a passenger (usually
pilot rated too) or an instructor (during training a few years ago).

I was going to do a short night XC a couple weeks ago and took off, got
about 10 miles out and didn't 'feel' right so I returned to the pattern. It
was probably just me, but it seemed like some strange noises from the plane
that I don't notice during day flight. If I have a passenger, I'm not as
concerned about flying XC at night. All of my night flights have been when
there is close to a full moon so visibility isn't a factor.

-Greg B.

"G. Burkhart" wrote in message news:0joad.218088$MQ5.166822@attbi_s52...
A question to the group. Do you normally fly many night solo cross
country flights? I have been going out to the local airport every couple
months to do some night flying, but it's usually solo just around the patch
to get night current so I can carry a passenger at night. The few times that
I have done cross countries at night, I either have a passenger (usually
pilot rated too) or an instructor (during training a few years ago).

I was going to do a short night XC a couple weeks ago and took off, got
about 10 miles out and didn't 'feel' right so I returned to the pattern. It
was probably just me, but it seemed like some strange noises from the plane
that I don't notice during day flight. If I have a passenger, I'm not as
concerned about flying XC at night. All of my night flights have been when
there is close to a full moon so visibility isn't a factor.

-Greg B.
Greg
There is a common phenomena called "autorough" when you get outside
the comfort zone like over the high mountains, way out offshore with a
single engine, night when you can't see anything like between layers,
etc. I had a crash at night many years ago and it took several years
before my hands would not get wet while flying after dark. Now its
pretty ho humm.
I'm surprised you are more comfortable with a pax at night than solo
on a XC! Is it just having someone to keep you occupied? I'm just the
other way...I don't want anyone on board with me if I happen to go
down again. As I've often said, "I'll risk MY life, but not YOURS."
Stay in your own comfort zone and if you get nervous night flying,
keep it close to home. Why go out and stick it in the
woods/desert/mountains, etc, someplace at night? From curiosity, I
checked my logs and have just over 1500 night in a variety of aircraft
including night crop spraying with helicopter.
Ol Shy & Bashful