If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, I confessed
the following: There was a former NSC guy (now living in MN) on local TV in St Paul tonight (they showed a pic of him and GWB in the Oval Office and two letters of commendation from Rice and Rumsfeld). This gentleman pretty much backed Clarke's assertion that Iraq was the primary target immediately after 9-11. Allow me to correct myself. I just watched the 10pm news and the guy's name is Tom Maertens (pronounced Martins) who was NSC Director of Non-Nuclear Proliferation under Clinton and Bush. The retirement letters of commendation are signed by Rice and Bush (not Rumsfeld, my bad... d'oh). Calls himself a political independent, but is flat out disgusted by the current administration. He mentioned a Rove memo from 2002 sent to GOP folks running for elected office (around the country) reminding them to "run on the war." I hope they do. Maertens thinks that Richard Clarke "hit a nerve," with GWB. http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4684189.html Juvat |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
Robey Price wrote: After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Tempest confessed the following: He didn't get permission. OK...busted, I should have posted he had "permission" since apparently some of his points were acquired in AL. I mean he does have some points for Oct and Nov 1972, and Rufus G Martin, Maj TX ANG signed off his points. His request was denied. But somehow he was able to get credit for drill periods in Oct and Nov 72 while in AL. He left TX anyway. True, but don't make it sound like he had to stay within the borders of TX. That statement sounds like he was fighting extradition to flee prosecution for some drug bust...[some will find the irony and or humor in this...or not] Please re-read this paragragh I wrote... This is one of the points that passes belief. I knew a lot of NG people at that time who simply travelled back to wherever to drill. Sometimes across most of the country. josh halpern |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
Chad Irby wrote: In article , Tempest wrote: Let's be real here. If we were being "real," this whole silly story would have died about four years back. You wish, and it's not. There's a lot of vets who would like to know just where was Bush. -- "The tyranny of a prince is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy." - Baron de Montesquieu, 1748 |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
Chad Irby wrote: In article , Tempest wrote: Chad Irby wrote: In article , Republican Double Standard wrote: Please. 20 years ago a bunch of criminals set up their own foreign policy group outside the government and how much jail time did they do? About the same amount of time a bunch of criminals who discussed assassinating US Congressmen did. Kerry voted against it and promptly left the group. ...and didn't tell any law enforcement officers about the conspiracy to kill members of the US Government. I heard hundreds of people wanting to kill Clinton, with the means and opportunity. What was I supposed to do, call the law every time I heard about it? Try again. Don't have to, you admitted that he knew about it. Under what obligation was Kerry to report it? -- "The tyranny of a prince is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy." - Baron de Montesquieu, 1748 |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
Robey Price wrote: Kevin Brooks wrote: [snip] His own unit had just become an operational conversion/training unit (first for the F-102, then for both the F-102 and F-101, and then for the F-101 exclusively for a number of years), and given the number of higher-hour pilots then leaving the active component, one can understand why they were not chomping at the bit to retain the flying services of then 1LT Bush. Mr Brooks is making a gross error in suggesting that any ANG unit would bypass one of its "favorite sons" and bring on some unknown entity, Elmo Bowlogrits leaving active duty. The ANG doesn't work that way, once you're in...you're IN, no swinging dick active duty guy is taking your slot, unless you **** up and give them a reason to boot your ass out. Yeh the boys at Ellington were making a mission change from Air Defense to RTU...but the minimum number of hours to qualify for an IP slot were recommendations in some Commands (ANG) and hard and fast in others. Hell if he could use political influence to jump ahead of guys on the waiting list to get in the unit, he could have stayed...he wasn't forced out by some active duty pogue. Plus...my employer in 1972, hired just over 40 pilots, in 1973 approx 60 guys, in 1974 less than 20. So there just were not a large number of guys leaving active duty...meaning not a lot of active duty guys competing for precious few ANG slots. It would have been no problem for 1Lt Bush (army types use 1LT, CPT, MAJ while the Air Force types use 1Lt, Capt, Maj) to raise his hand and say, "I, GWB wanna fly jets! Just like I said I did when I interviewed for the slot in 1968," and he pink little body would have been in IPUG (Instructor Pilot Upgrade). He just didn't want to fly, going out of state and doing the bare minimum is proof of that. Flying was not a priority nor a passion for GWB, he tried it and didn't like it, so he quit. Nobody can dispute that. I have co-workers that tell stories of their ANG or Reserve time back in the good ole days (the 1970s)...when units would use their T-29 to go pick up guys out of state and bring them in for UTA weekends or FTPs. Not all units, but some units. Kind of funny that some folks are still trying to make that dog hunt--this was a non-issue four years ago, and it remains a non-issue today. To which Tempest responded: Maybe to you, but to the swing voters it has legs. Bush is making his integrity an issue, and this blows a hole right through it. GWB loyalists don't see it as an integrity issue. He served the minimum, and by golly if the minimums weren't good enough, lower the minimums! [Brooks waxed sarcastic WRT to Mr Clake...with an E and Tempest challenged him] What fabrication? Please provide proof. You are aware that most everything Clarke has said has been collaborated, right? Tempest, sincerely...save your bandwidth. Noted. Please don't confuse him with the facts...his mind is made up. That's really the scary part, some folks are unwilling to entertain ANY doubt even after no WMD, no al-Qaeda to Iraq connection, no Saddam is an imminent threat proof. While the swing voters ponder, if Rove & Co were less than honest on those three things why believe them now. There was a former NSC guy (now living in MN) on local TV in St Paul tonight (they showed a pic of him and GWB in the Oval Office and two letters of commendation from Rice and Rumsfeld). This gentleman pretty much backed Clarke's assertion that Iraq was the primary target immediately after 9-11. Paul O'Neill, former Bush Treasury Secretary, was present in a meeting just after Bush was inaugurated in January 2001 when Bush came into a meeting and said, "**** Saddam, we're taking him out." O'Neill told of the event in his book. Also, CBS found two other Pentagon officials who collaborated Clarke's story. When told of the sources, Hadley stuttered and stumbled to cover up his shock. Here's a great place to stay informed http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/index.htm Thanks for the link. Juvat -- "The tyranny of a prince is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy." - Baron de Montesquieu, 1748 |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
Kevin Brooks wrote: "Tempest" wrote in message ... Kevin Brooks wrote: "Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news In article , Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote: by James Ridgeway A New Theory for Bush's Low, Low Profile in the Alabama Guard March 24 - 30, 2004 Mondo Washington this week: Here's a new twist to the George W. Bush AWOL mystery, in which almost no one remembers him fulfilling his duties with the Alabama National Guard. According to an investigation by the Spokane, Washington, Spokesman-Review, Bush may have been involuntarily removed from being a pilot due to little-known Human Reliability Regulations. These were rules to screen out military personnel for mental, physical, and emotional fitness before letting them handle nuclear weapons and delivery systems. The regulations affected thousands of pilots and were used to suspend two Washington State pilots on suspicion of drug use, although in the end both men received honorable discharges. snip The government's reaction to questions about the human reliability regs merits attention. The White House gave no comment to a Spokesman-Review reporter, referring questions to the Defense Department. The National Guard Bureau, now run by a Bush pick from Texas, said it was under orders not to discuss the story. The bureau's chief historian also told the Spokane paper he was under orders not to discuss the topic. The freedom of information officer at the bureau said her people stopped taking requests on Bush's military service last month and now refer all questions regarding it to the Pentagon. http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0412/mondo2.php No -- it is a much simpler answer. Since AL ANG was transitioning from RF-84Fs to RF-4s, they would, naturally, place their most senior pilots (Capt's, Maj's, Lt col's, etc) ahead of a lowly short timer Lt (he had only a short remaining duty obligation) transferring in from Texas. As I understand it, the RF-4 checkout program was several months long. The AL ANG simply didn't want to use their resources on him. Actually, he was only performing split training assemblies with them (or more accurately, "equivalent training"); his request to transfer to another unit had been turned down. His own unit had just become an operational conversion/training unit (first for the F-102, then for both the F-102 and F-101, and then for the F-101 exclusively for a number of years), and given the number of higher-hour pilots then leaving the active component, one can understand why they were not chomping at the bit to retain the flying services of then 1LT Bush. Kind of funny that some folks are still trying to make that dog hunt--this was a non-issue four years ago, and it remains a non-issue today. Maybe to you, but to the swing voters it has legs. Bush is making his integrity an issue, and this blows a hole right through it. No, it does not, as it is based upon faulty analysis. PRP would only apply to nuclear armed units--Bush's unit would not have qualified by 1972 (the AIM-26A had left the inventory, and his unit was transitioning to a training role). Them's the facts. You don't like it because they do not play neatly into your twisted little anti-Bush scenario, and that is just too bad. What the **** are you talking about? Just what does that nonsense have to do with Bush leaving his unit without permission and going AWOL? Maybe we will next hear where the esteemed Mr. Clark now recollects the *truth* behind Bush's service record (well, that is as soon as Clark can determine exactly what he wants *that* particular "truth" to look like, based upon his evident skills at fabrication). What fabrication? Please provide proof. One presumes you possess the modicum of intelligence required to do a web search; the transcripts of Mr. Clark's background brief (where he offered views directly contradicting his statements yesterday) given in August 2002 are available at various sites. Likewise, the unredacted portion of the e-mail that Rice provided contradicting his claims is available. You can find them if you want to. Why should I bother to provide them to you, as you won't bother to read what they had to say anyway? I read them, and you are lying. If you believe Rice, you're as stupid as you seem. You are aware that most everything Clarke has said has been collaborated, right? Nope. Yup. But since it doesn't correspond with your fabricated belief, you won't acknowledge it. Mr. Clark's own statements vary depending upon when he said it, who he said it to, and whether or not his utterance was delivered before or after he missed getting that job he wanted in DHS. Clarke explained himself. And from my own experiences in Washington, he is absolutely correct. You don't give negative news if it's not asked for. Mr. Lehman was dead on target when he said Clark has a credibility problem. Then why did Lehman fall silent and look embarrassed after Clarke explained himself? You didn't watch the hearings, did you? One minute the guy is claiming he had the guts to stand by his convictions, offer his opinions no matter how impolitic they were, and tender his resignation, etc.; the next he whines that his background comments were skewed to be favorable to the Bush administration because that was just the position he was in. Phooey. Which is SOP when you work in Washington. Not that you'd know anything about that. Brooks *plonk* The last act of a lying coward. -- "The tyranny of a prince is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy." - Baron de Montesquieu, 1748 |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
Robey Price wrote:
After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Tempest confessed the following: He didn't get permission. OK...busted, I should have posted he had "permission" since apparently some of his points were acquired in AL. I mean he does have some points for Oct and Nov 1972, and Rufus G Martin, Maj TX ANG signed off his points. He received "permission" after the fact. The document is posted at www.awolbush.com, it's dated after he was told to reappear in Texas. His request was denied. But somehow he was able to get credit for drill periods in Oct and Nov 72 while in AL. See above. He left TX anyway. True, but don't make it sound like he had to stay within the borders of TX. That statement sounds like he was fighting extradition to flee prosecution for some drug bust...[some will find the irony and or humor in this...or not] Not my intention. Please re-read this paragragh I wrote... The most likely scenario was that GWB put in a little (we're talking VERY little) "VFR face time," but literally didn't do anything but walk around unsupervised, drink coffee, have mock dog-fights with his right hand shooting the watch on his left wrist while telling, "There I was..." stories. Juvat -- "The tyranny of a prince is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy." - Baron de Montesquieu, 1748 |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
"Tempest" wrote in message ... Robey Price wrote: After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Tempest confessed the following: He didn't get permission. OK...busted, I should have posted he had "permission" since apparently some of his points were acquired in AL. I mean he does have some points for Oct and Nov 1972, and Rufus G Martin, Maj TX ANG signed off his points. He received "permission" after the fact. The document is posted at www.awolbush.com, it's dated after he was told to reappear in Texas. His request was denied. But somehow he was able to get credit for drill periods in Oct and Nov 72 while in AL. See above. He left TX anyway. True, but don't make it sound like he had to stay within the borders of TX. That statement sounds like he was fighting extradition to flee prosecution for some drug bust...[some will find the irony and or humor in this...or not] Not my intention. Please re-read this paragragh I wrote... The most likely scenario was that GWB put in a little (we're talking VERY little) "VFR face time," but literally didn't do anything but walk around unsupervised, drink coffee, have mock dog-fights with his right hand shooting the watch on his left wrist while telling, "There I was..." stories. Juvat -- "The tyranny of a prince is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy." - Baron de Montesquieu, 1748 This particular angle on the AWOL business makes the most sense to me. It follows the "too stupid to be..." theme that Dubya has lived by. Can't you just picture a definitive biography of GWB, with the chapters titled as following? Too stupid to be a preppy Too stupid to be an Eli Too stupid to be an ANG pilot Too stupid to be an oil company exec Too stupid to be a ... .... ... ... ... Too stupid to be president. |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Josh
Halpern confessed the following: This is one of the points that passes belief. I knew a lot of NG people at that time who simply travelled back to wherever to drill. Sometimes across most of the country. Oh yeah, folks do it all the time. GWB simply didn't want to fly. Juvat |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Tempest
confessed the following: He received "permission" after the fact. The document is posted at www.awolbush.com, it's dated after he was told to reappear in Texas. Been there, done that...got the PDFs. Please don't mistake my posts as defending the current occupant of the oval office. I'm not. True, but don't make it sound like he had to stay within the borders of TX. That statement sounds like he was fighting extradition to flee prosecution for some drug bust...[some will find the irony and or humor in this...or not] Not my intention. Dang...and I was hoping you'd see the humor WRT fleeing a drug bust. Juvat |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Juan Jiminez is a liar and a fraud (was: Zoom fables on ANN | ChuckSlusarczyk | Home Built | 105 | October 8th 04 12:38 AM |
Bush's guard record | JDKAHN | Home Built | 13 | October 3rd 04 09:38 PM |
bush rules! | Be Kind | Military Aviation | 53 | February 14th 04 04:26 PM |
Bu$h Jr's Iran-Contra -- The Pentagone's Reign of Terror | PirateJohn | Military Aviation | 1 | September 6th 03 10:05 AM |