knowledge test results coming back to haunt you

chris priest wrote in message ...
This has been on my mind for a long time now. I am planning on pursuing
a career in aviation, whether that be in the military, corporate,
regional, the airlines, or possibly as just an instructor. Now when it
comes down to hiring, will the results of my private, instrument,
commercial etc. knowledge tests come in as a factor?

Study just enough to barely make it. Then worry about making it.
Sounds like a good plan to me.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

tony roberts wrote:
I spent a long time contemplating your post.
I even started a very detailed response, and then deleted it, because it
seemed to me that an honest and impartial response was not what you were
truly seeking - so I'll just say this.
I truly believe that the rewards you get out of this will roughly equal
the effort that you put in. Just don't tell the interviewer that you
will not put in xyz because you actually have a life - because, believe
it or not, so does everyone else!
Most employers, particularly in your field seek excellence, but you may
get lucky and find one that is satisfied with mediocrity.
Otherwise - do you have a second career choice?


Tony
P.S. I'm not trying to **** you off - I'm trying to wake you up!


It just seems silly to me to have to spend all of that time studying
just to get a perfect score, when you can spend 80% less time studying
and still pass, giving you the same result. My summer job currently is
basically being a janitor at a RV park. My job is to pick up trash,
clean the bathrooms, sweep the floors; stuff like that. The biggest
thing I dislike about this job is how they instructed me to clean the
bathrooms. I have to spray the toilet bowl with chemical #5, then
chemical #7, then after a few minutes, I have to scrub the inside of the
bowl with brush #1 soaked in bleach. The the outside of the toilet with
brush #2 in bleach. After that I have to wipe it down with a wet rag,
then with a dry rag. Then I have to do it all over again to the rest of
the toilets. After this whole process the toilets have the exact same
appearance they did before I started. It just seems like I spent all
that effort for nothing. I could have achieved the same effect with a 30
second spray-n-wipe then be done with.

I sort of feel the same when I study for these knowledge tests. I don't
see any reason to go all out when a 70 is all thats required. Thats not
to say only 70% of all there is to know is only worth having.

I don't see the written exam tests as the SAT. To me the only point of
taking the test is to pass. The grade is irrelevant. Heck, when I took
my PAR, I remember skipping questions because I just didn't want to do
them. They were mostly those calculating problems that use the E6B which
I knew how to do, I just didn't see the point in laboring over the
problem, when i could have as easily skipped it. I must have did this a
lot, as you all know I came close to not passing. Now, mind you, if I
was in the air, I would have done the calculation without second
thought. It's all about putting the effort where it belongs.

Looking back, I probably had too much confidence. I'm part 141, and
during ground school I never got below a 85 on all of my tests, so I
have no doubt in my mind that I was going to pass that test. When I take
my instrument knowledge test sometime in the next week, I'll most likely
use a slightly diffrent approach, but I'm still not going in there with
a 100% as my goal. My goal will be to pass.

Is it really important to concentrate on a perfect on-center smooth
landing every time, or to just focus on landing each flight safely?

I am sorry for saying this, but you have to change your attitude toward
flying before something serious happens. You are showing all the classic
signs of hazardous attitudes (described in detail in the Aviation
Instructor's Handbook).

I am not familiar with the cleaning example, but if someone had gone
through the effort of establishing a procedure for it, then there is
usually a good reason behind it. You can't toss everything out just because
it 'seems' to be a waste of time. I am not saying that you should not
question the procedures, but before you question the procedures you must
thoroughly investigate the pros and cons of those procedures and come up
with an alternative.

Coming back to flying, if one of my students came with an excuse as yours,
I would ask them to do the exam again, or find another instructor for their
training. The low score is one issue, but arguing that it is a waste of
time to score higher is a more serious issue. If you think that you will
not take a similar attitude in the cockpit, I don't believe it. The
attitude towards being a safe pilot does not begin in the cockpit; it
permeates all parts of ones life.

Before you question what exam scores have to do with safety, safety is not
just about manipulating the yoke and rudder. It is about making informed
decisions on the ground and in the air. Written exams are an indication of
how much information you know, and how willing you are to learn them.

As for skipping questions because you are confident of passing the test,
this too displays an attitude towards taking shortcuts. It might be
worthwhile for you to read about risk management. There are plenty of
aviation publications that deal with this subject.






chris priest wrote in
:

tony roberts wrote:
I spent a long time contemplating your post.
I even started a very detailed response, and then deleted it, because
it seemed to me that an honest and impartial response was not what
you were truly seeking - so I'll just say this.
I truly believe that the rewards you get out of this will roughly
equal the effort that you put in. Just don't tell the interviewer
that you will not put in xyz because you actually have a life -
because, believe it or not, so does everyone else!
Most employers, particularly in your field seek excellence, but you
may get lucky and find one that is satisfied with mediocrity.
Otherwise - do you have a second career choice?


Tony
P.S. I'm not trying to **** you off - I'm trying to wake you up!


It just seems silly to me to have to spend all of that time studying
just to get a perfect score, when you can spend 80% less time studying
and still pass, giving you the same result. My summer job currently is
basically being a janitor at a RV park. My job is to pick up trash,
clean the bathrooms, sweep the floors; stuff like that. The biggest
thing I dislike about this job is how they instructed me to clean the
bathrooms. I have to spray the toilet bowl with chemical #5, then
chemical #7, then after a few minutes, I have to scrub the inside of
the bowl with brush #1 soaked in bleach. The the outside of the toilet
with brush #2 in bleach. After that I have to wipe it down with a wet
rag, then with a dry rag. Then I have to do it all over again to the
rest of the toilets. After this whole process the toilets have the
exact same appearance they did before I started. It just seems like I
spent all that effort for nothing. I could have achieved the same
effect with a 30 second spray-n-wipe then be done with.

I sort of feel the same when I study for these knowledge tests. I
don't see any reason to go all out when a 70 is all thats required.
Thats not to say only 70% of all there is to know is only worth
having.

I don't see the written exam tests as the SAT. To me the only point of
taking the test is to pass. The grade is irrelevant. Heck, when I took
my PAR, I remember skipping questions because I just didn't want to do
them. They were mostly those calculating problems that use the E6B
which I knew how to do, I just didn't see the point in laboring over
the problem, when i could have as easily skipped it. I must have did
this a lot, as you all know I came close to not passing. Now, mind
you, if I was in the air, I would have done the calculation without
second thought. It's all about putting the effort where it belongs.

Looking back, I probably had too much confidence. I'm part 141, and
during ground school I never got below a 85 on all of my tests, so I
have no doubt in my mind that I was going to pass that test. When I
take my instrument knowledge test sometime in the next week, I'll most
likely use a slightly diffrent approach, but I'm still not going in
there with a 100% as my goal. My goal will be to pass.

Is it really important to concentrate on a perfect on-center smooth
landing every time, or to just focus on landing each flight safely?

chris priest wrote:
I don't see the written exam tests as the SAT. To me the only point of
taking the test is to pass. The grade is irrelevant. Heck, when I took
my PAR, I remember skipping questions because I just didn't want to do
them. They were mostly those calculating problems that use the E6B which
I knew how to do, I just didn't see the point in laboring over the
problem, when i could have as easily skipped it. I must have did this a
lot, as you all know I came close to not passing. Now, mind you, if I
was in the air, I would have done the calculation without second
thought. It's all about putting the effort where it belongs.

Now we know where the problem lies.
It's you attitude.
You don't understand how skipping one little item can affect the outcome
of your flight.
Have you ever heard the saying, "An accident is a string of broken links
in a chain of events. Stop the breaks at the earliest possile
opportunity and the accident will be prevented."
There are so many scenarios I could present based on what you have
written that I don't know where to begin.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

As for skipping questions because you are confident of passing the test,
this too displays an attitude towards taking shortcuts. It might be
worthwhile for you to read about risk management.

I understand there are things you can risk, and then there are things
you just can't risk. When you are on final approach, you just *can not*
skip those final checklist items. On the flip side, when you are doing a
cross country, you *can* afford to skip writing down your time en route
between checkpoints in your flight log if you are preoccupied with your
VOR receiver failing. I felt like I could afford to skip certain
questions on my test and not have it negatively effect (meaning fail)
the test.

Risk management is all about *managing* risks, not avoiding any sort of
situation imaginable that may in some slight way have a negative effect.
There are tons of things experienced pilots do that could in some way
negatively effect safety of a flight, such as neglecting a micrology
while dealing with an emergency. These are unavoidable and they happen
all the time. The difference between a good pilot and a bad one is that
pilot's ability to deal with these situations, and what they choose to
omit, and not omit.

I didn't go in there and skip every question, as that would have been
poor risk management. I only skipped those questions which I knew would
not effect my ultimate goal which is, and always has been passing. When
I did the SAT, I did not skip any questions because that would have
lowered my score and the goal there is to get the best score you can.
The FAA knowledge tests are not the SAT.

Now on the other hand, if the grade is something that could come back to
haunt me come time to get a job, then I would say what I did was wrong.
That was the whole point of this thread. Will the grade effect me? If so
then I'll try to get a 100 next time. If it doesn't, then I won't sweat
it. Either way I'm going to pass the test and begin my training aloft
where I'll cement the things the things in my mind that I didn't already
know. Isn't that the whole point in doing the oral part of the checkride?

chris priest wrote:

On the flip side, when you are doing a
cross country, you *can* afford to skip writing down your time en route
between checkpoints in your flight log if you are preoccupied with your
VOR receiver failing.

Actually, if your VOR appears to be in the process of going TU, it's *more* important
that you have accurate times recorded. You're likely to be reduced to pure pilotage
soon, and if you don't know how long ago you passed your last waypoint, that's going
to be more difficult (and perhaps impossible).

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


chris priest wrote:

On the flip side, when you are doing a
cross country, you *can* afford to skip writing down your time en route
between checkpoints in your flight log if you are preoccupied with your
VOR receiver failing.


Actually, if your VOR appears to be in the process of going TU, it's *more* important
that you have accurate times recorded. You're likely to be reduced to pure pilotage
soon, and if you don't know how long ago you passed your last waypoint, that's going
to be more difficult (and perhaps impossible).

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

Sorry, that was just a quick and dirty example. Lets then assume this
pilot's plane has GPS equipped.

You said: "which I knew would not effect my ultimate goal which is, and
always has been passing".

That's not much of a goal, if you ask me, although it is becoming a far too
prevalent one.

You would be much better served if you used a test as a means of insuring
that you do in fact know everything you were taught and everything you
should know.

From your post, I get the impression that you are only doing the least you
can to get by. And please don't try to argue the value of that point. I
could give you hundreds of examples from my life where you might think I did
the least I could to get by. I once woke up at 3:00 on a Saturday morning to
the dripping sound of a leaky sewer pipe. How did I solve it? I called a
plumber. But not at 3:00 on a Saturday morning. Instead, I put a few turns
of duct tape around the pipe; from other sources of knowledge I knew that
would hold for several days. Then I called the plumber at 7:30 on Monday
morning. This was not a matter of doing the least necessary, it was a matter
of using the least only to temporarily delay doing a proper repair.

In much of life, doing the least required doesn't get you anywhere faster,
and it may insure that you don't get there at all.





"chris priest" wrote in
message ...
Andrew Sarangan wrote:

As for skipping questions because you are confident of passing the test,
this too displays an attitude towards taking shortcuts. It might be
worthwhile for you to read about risk management.

I understand there are things you can risk, and then there are things
you just can't risk. When you are on final approach, you just *can not*
skip those final checklist items. On the flip side, when you are doing a
cross country, you *can* afford to skip writing down your time en route
between checkpoints in your flight log if you are preoccupied with your
VOR receiver failing. I felt like I could afford to skip certain
questions on my test and not have it negatively effect (meaning fail)
the test.

Risk management is all about *managing* risks, not avoiding any sort of
situation imaginable that may in some slight way have a negative effect.
There are tons of things experienced pilots do that could in some way
negatively effect safety of a flight, such as neglecting a micrology
while dealing with an emergency. These are unavoidable and they happen
all the time. The difference between a good pilot and a bad one is that
pilot's ability to deal with these situations, and what they choose to
omit, and not omit.

I didn't go in there and skip every question, as that would have been
poor risk management. I only skipped those questions which I knew would
not effect my ultimate goal which is, and always has been passing. When
I did the SAT, I did not skip any questions because that would have
lowered my score and the goal there is to get the best score you can.
The FAA knowledge tests are not the SAT.

Now on the other hand, if the grade is something that could come back to
haunt me come time to get a job, then I would say what I did was wrong.
That was the whole point of this thread. Will the grade effect me? If so
then I'll try to get a 100 next time. If it doesn't, then I won't sweat
it. Either way I'm going to pass the test and begin my training aloft
where I'll cement the things the things in my mind that I didn't already
know. Isn't that the whole point in doing the oral part of the checkride?

It doesn't matter if the plane is equipped with the almighty hand of God, if
it goes belly up and it is your sole electronic navigation source, you're
reduced to pilotage.

I think a bit more book-time would serve you well...


"chris priest" wrote in
message ...
G.R. Patterson III wrote:


chris priest wrote:

On the flip side, when you are doing a
cross country, you *can* afford to skip writing down your time en route
between checkpoints in your flight log if you are preoccupied with your
VOR receiver failing.


Actually, if your VOR appears to be in the process of going TU, it's
*more* important
that you have accurate times recorded. You're likely to be reduced to
pure pilotage
soon, and if you don't know how long ago you passed your last waypoint,
that's going
to be more difficult (and perhaps impossible).

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

Sorry, that was just a quick and dirty example. Lets then assume this
pilot's plane has GPS equipped.

chris priest wrote in
:

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

As for skipping questions because you are confident of passing the
test, this too displays an attitude towards taking shortcuts. It
might be worthwhile for you to read about risk management.

I understand there are things you can risk, and then there are things
you just can't risk. When you are on final approach, you just *can
not* skip those final checklist items. On the flip side, when you are
doing a cross country, you *can* afford to skip writing down your time
en route between checkpoints in your flight log if you are preoccupied
with your VOR receiver failing. I felt like I could afford to skip
certain questions on my test and not have it negatively effect
(meaning fail) the test.

Risk management is all about *managing* risks, not avoiding any sort
of situation imaginable that may in some slight way have a negative
effect. There are tons of things experienced pilots do that could in
some way negatively effect safety of a flight, such as neglecting a
micrology while dealing with an emergency. These are unavoidable and
they happen all the time. The difference between a good pilot and a
bad one is that pilot's ability to deal with these situations, and
what they choose to omit, and not omit.

Risk management is about being aware of and assessing all risk elements and
taking the best course of action. Not studying hard enough, or being lazy
is not generally considered a risk element. If you don't have the time or
motivation to do your best on the written exam, you really need to
reconsider if aviation is going to work for you.