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#51
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quick question -
Bertie the Bunyip wrote in
: Marty Shapiro wrote in : Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : Yeahm but you have a big engine one, don;t you? Been years since I've flown one, but the slats should alter the chord line and give a high deck angle with no flaps out. Yes, I have the 235. I've never flown the smaller ones. The deck angle is even higher with the flaps out. When I want to pop it off the runway, I use 1/2 flaps (at this setting, they are pretty much only about 15 degrees down, but at maximum extension)and pitch for Vx. Trim for Vx and then simply raising the flaps will lower the nose slightly and put me right on Vy. The slats, as you know, are automatic, and will pretty much stay out in a climb until you lower the nose to about 85-90 MPH indicated. The slats are in for a cruise climb (106 MPH). hmmm, strange that the angle would be higher with flaps out, The mean chord line should change and require a lower deck angle for a given airspeed. Bertie That's a very good point, Bertie. When doing power on stalls, it works exactly as one would expect. I have a significantly higher angle of attack to get to stall buffet with the flaps in than with them out. In fact, with flaps in, you need to get up to nearly 30 degrees nose high just to start getting stall buffet. I remember the first time I did this I thought I was going to roll backwards out of my seat. But in this case I'm comparing no flaps to full flaps, which is almost 45 degrees. Remember that the Rallye also has Fowler flaps. In the maximum effort take off, 1/2 flaps basically only lowers them 15 degrees while reaching maximum rearward extension. I'm wondering if in this case the change in speed from 75 MPH (Vx) to 81 MPH (Vy) offets the effect of the 15 degree downward to a greater extent. Anything less than 1/2 flaps and all you have done is extend them rearward with no downward angle. -- Marty Shapiro Silicon Rallye Inc. (remove SPAMNOT to email me) |
#52
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quick question -
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#53
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quick question -
On Jul 21, 11:06 am, Marty Shapiro
wrote: george wrote in news:1d794c95-8b8f-49e7-9e3a- : On Jul 20, 6:23 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Oh yeah. Obviously! The little engine ones went OK and I even flew an ST and did some aerobatics in it, which it did farily well compared to similar airplanes. In Europe they're nicknamed the "tin parachute" for their ability to settle to earth with the stick fully back at a minimal rate. The idea being that someone who gets stuck in IMC without the ability to fly out of it can close the power, pull the stick back and probably have a better chance than thye would if they continued to push onwards. The engine out scenario was supposed to be the same. I wouldn't like to try it, however! Yup. I heard the same story about some-one in France lost above cloud who used that technique. As I soloed in the Rallye featured in the photo I have a lot of regard for that particular aeroplane. As to stability there -was- a private owner who would drop the control lock over the stick and concentrate on his navigation. Marty What are the new Socatta (I think they're called) like to fly? and do they have lockable slots ? Used to be quite distracting on a crosscountry for the passengers with them banging away . If by new SOCATAs you mean the Islander series (Tampico, Trinidad, Tobago), which were the successors to the Rallye, I have never flown one. I believe they do not have leading edge slats. I don't have the problem of the slats deploying in cruise unless I hit moderate or more turbulence or chop. The heavy airframe Rallyes have slat dampeners, which may also explain why they don't bang when they do deploy/retract compared to the light airframe models. I've flown quite a few Angel Flights in the Rallye and just explain the slats to the passengers as part of my passenger briefing just before take off and again just before I do my pre-landing check list. So far, it has not been a problem. I really love the Rallye, but in many ways I'm glad that I did NOT learn to fly in one. It lets you get a way with too much that most aircraft won't. I'm glad I used a Cessna to learn stalls and MCA, where, when I made a mistake, it was very, very obvious. With the Rallye, you just mush. But it is a very stable platform and that, coupled with its great visibility, makes it a pleasure to fly cross country. Again, my point of view is based on the heavy airframe models, specifically the 235. It might very well be different for the light airframes, but I don't have any experience with them. I wouldn't try that control lock trick in the 4-seaters which have yokes, not control sticks. The control lock is the tow bar. The rudder "pedals" are two tubes. The upper tube is the brakes and the lower tube is the rudder. There is a gap between the upper and lower tubes. The lower tubes on the pilots side are hollow. You insert the handle of the tow bar into the lower tubes and then slide a pin through the control column on the yoke. Not something I'd want to do in flight. Thanks. These control locks were inserted around the bottom of the instrument panel and dropped over the LH stick. My favourite was the metal plate with blocks of wood top and bottom that you slid between the elevators and tailplane |
#54
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quick question -
Marty Shapiro wrote in
: Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : Marty Shapiro wrote in : Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : Yeahm but you have a big engine one, don;t you? Been years since I've flown one, but the slats should alter the chord line and give a high deck angle with no flaps out. Yes, I have the 235. I've never flown the smaller ones. The deck angle is even higher with the flaps out. When I want to pop it off the runway, I use 1/2 flaps (at this setting, they are pretty much only about 15 degrees down, but at maximum extension)and pitch for Vx. Trim for Vx and then simply raising the flaps will lower the nose slightly and put me right on Vy. The slats, as you know, are automatic, and will pretty much stay out in a climb until you lower the nose to about 85-90 MPH indicated. The slats are in for a cruise climb (106 MPH). hmmm, strange that the angle would be higher with flaps out, The mean chord line should change and require a lower deck angle for a given airspeed. Bertie That's a very good point, Bertie. When doing power on stalls, it works exactly as one would expect. I have a significantly higher angle of attack to get to stall buffet with the flaps in than with them out. In fact, with flaps in, you need to get up to nearly 30 degrees nose high just to start getting stall buffet. I remember the first time I did this I thought I was going to roll backwards out of my seat. But in this case I'm comparing no flaps to full flaps, which is almost 45 degrees. Remember that the Rallye also has Fowler flaps. In the maximum effort take off, 1/2 flaps basically only lowers them 15 degrees while reaching maximum rearward extension. I'm wondering if in this case the change in speed from 75 MPH (Vx) to 81 MPH (Vy) offets the effect of the 15 degree downward to a greater extent. Anything less than 1/2 flaps and all you have done is extend them rearward with no downward angle. Yeah, could be. We have a similar setup on most jets where they travle backwards for the first couple of settings. The slats come out at the same time so the airplane tends to sit a couple of degrees more deck angle than it does clean. |
#55
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quick question -
Bertie the Bunyip wrote in
: Marty Shapiro wrote in : Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : Marty Shapiro wrote in : Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : Yeahm but you have a big engine one, don;t you? Been years since I've flown one, but the slats should alter the chord line and give a high deck angle with no flaps out. Yes, I have the 235. I've never flown the smaller ones. The deck angle is even higher with the flaps out. When I want to pop it off the runway, I use 1/2 flaps (at this setting, they are pretty much only about 15 degrees down, but at maximum extension)and pitch for Vx. Trim for Vx and then simply raising the flaps will lower the nose slightly and put me right on Vy. The slats, as you know, are automatic, and will pretty much stay out in a climb until you lower the nose to about 85-90 MPH indicated. The slats are in for a cruise climb (106 MPH). hmmm, strange that the angle would be higher with flaps out, The mean chord line should change and require a lower deck angle for a given airspeed. Bertie That's a very good point, Bertie. When doing power on stalls, it works exactly as one would expect. I have a significantly higher angle of attack to get to stall buffet with the flaps in than with them out. In fact, with flaps in, you need to get up to nearly 30 degrees nose high just to start getting stall buffet. I remember the first time I did this I thought I was going to roll backwards out of my seat. But in this case I'm comparing no flaps to full flaps, which is almost 45 degrees. Remember that the Rallye also has Fowler flaps. In the maximum effort take off, 1/2 flaps basically only lowers them 15 degrees while reaching maximum rearward extension. I'm wondering if in this case the change in speed from 75 MPH (Vx) to 81 MPH (Vy) offets the effect of the 15 degree downward to a greater extent. Anything less than 1/2 flaps and all you have done is extend them rearward with no downward angle. Yeah, could be. We have a similar setup on most jets where they travle backwards for the first couple of settings. The slats come out at the same time so the airplane tends to sit a couple of degrees more deck angle than it does clean. Don't you have control of the slats on the jets you fly? On the Rallye they are automatic based on angle of attack. -- Marty Shapiro Silicon Rallye Inc. (remove SPAMNOT to email me) |
#56
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quick question -
Marty Shapiro wrote in
: Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : Marty Shapiro wrote in : Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : Marty Shapiro wrote in : Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : Yeahm but you have a big engine one, don;t you? Been years since I've flown one, but the slats should alter the chord line and give a high deck angle with no flaps out. Yes, I have the 235. I've never flown the smaller ones. The deck angle is even higher with the flaps out. When I want to pop it off the runway, I use 1/2 flaps (at this setting, they are pretty much only about 15 degrees down, but at maximum extension) and pitch for Vx. Trim for Vx and then simply raising the flaps will lower the nose slightly and put me right on Vy. The slats, as you know, are automatic, and will pretty much stay out in a climb until you lower the nose to about 85-90 MPH indicated. The slats are in for a cruise climb (106 MPH). hmmm, strange that the angle would be higher with flaps out, The mean chord line should change and require a lower deck angle for a given airspeed. Bertie That's a very good point, Bertie. When doing power on stalls, it works exactly as one would expect. I have a significantly higher angle of attack to get to stall buffet with the flaps in than with them out. In fact, with flaps in, you need to get up to nearly 30 degrees nose high just to start getting stall buffet. I remember the first time I did this I thought I was going to roll backwards out of my seat. But in this case I'm comparing no flaps to full flaps, which is almost 45 degrees. Remember that the Rallye also has Fowler flaps. In the maximum effort take off, 1/2 flaps basically only lowers them 15 degrees while reaching maximum rearward extension. I'm wondering if in this case the change in speed from 75 MPH (Vx) to 81 MPH (Vy) offets the effect of the 15 degree downward to a greater extent. Anything less than 1/2 flaps and all you have done is extend them rearward with no downward angle. Yeah, could be. We have a similar setup on most jets where they travle backwards for the first couple of settings. The slats come out at the same time so the airplane tends to sit a couple of degrees more deck angle than it does clean. Don't you have control of the slats on the jets you fly? On the Rallye they are automatic based on angle of attack. We do, but on most airplanes they come out when you select flaps. Ususally, there are two slat positions, depending on the type of slat. The first stage of slats comes out when you select the first stage of flap and the second stage of slats comes out when you select the final stages. On airbusses, though, at least most of them, the frist selection position selects slats only,and this is often the position you take off in. No flaps and slats at 15 deg. Other guys not familiar with this wil shout at you that your flaps are up as you taxi onto the runway if they happen to be behind you. Bertie |
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