O2 and Cypriot airliner crash

For those who want to read about the medical aspects of Hypoxia, see United
States Naval Flight Surgeon's Manual: Third Edition 1991: Chapter 1:
Physiology of Flight, http://www.vnh.org/FSManual/01/03Hypoxia.html .

Also, have a look at Dr. Daniel L. Johnson's web site
http://amygdala.danlj.org/~danlj/Avi...ine/index.html .

For those who want to read about actual incidents of hypoxia which did not
lead to an accident, see:

Boeing 737 Incident 98.08.13 Report June 99:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_501410.pdf

Jet Provost Incident 02.08.18 Report Aug. 03:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_023414.pdf

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


wrote in message
oups.com...

In accounts of the crash of the Cypriot airliner in Greece, all I've
read say that loss of cabin pressure could not, by itself, incapacitate
the pilot. Yet, I was once told by an ATP that at 40k feet (admittedly
this plane was at 35k) O2 supply by itself will not suffice to keep you
conscious and that the drop down masks only give a false sense of
security. He said that the ambient pressure is so low that even 100% O2
does not provide enough to keep you conscious without a pressure
breathing mask. If he's right, that could explain the crash, especially
given that all it would take is 20 seconds of distraction (i.e., not
donning the mask) to knock out the pilot as indicated in the table
below. On the other hand, I checked and a standard atmosphere at 35k
feet is 7.0 in of Hg, which is more than the partial pressure of O2 at
sea level (6 in = 20% of 30 inches), which would seem to contradict the
info given by the ATP. Any thoughts or corrections to my reasoning?


Tlme of useful
consciousness
Altitude (ft) without oxygen

40,000 15 seconds
35.000 20 seconds
30,000 30 seconds
28,000 1 minute
26,000 2 minutes
24,000 3 minutes
22,000 6 minutes
20,000 10 minutes
15.000 Indefinite

The chart is for time of USEFUL consciousness. The part where the pilot
starts thinking "I feel really great. Look how beautiful the scenery is.
The cold is my friend...." isn't useful consciousness.
"Bucky" wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
40,000 15 seconds
35.000 20 seconds
30,000 30 seconds

I don't get it. Can't a person stay conscious for longer than 30
seconds without breathing? Most people can hold their breath for over
a minute.

What I don't get is:

1. how you get a very hard to put out fuel fire from a crashed aeroplane
that was empty of fuel

2. considering that the flight was from Cyprus Larnaca to Athens and the
aircraft crashed on route - again, how come it ran out of fuel?

Morbid curiousity and a penchant for conspiracy theories is taking hold.

Rgds,

Derrick Steed

Derrick Steed wrote:

What I don't get is:

1. how you get a very hard to put out fuel fire from a crashed aeroplane
that was empty of fuel

2. considering that the flight was from Cyprus Larnaca to Athens and the
aircraft crashed on route - again, how come it ran out of fuel?

Our news reports (Western USA) said the aircraft flew over it's
destination at 35,000', so it doesn't sound like it ran out of fuel on
route. The crash seemed to be attributed to disengagement of the
autopilot, perhaps by someone, or by a problem in the system.


--
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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

If all on board where incapacitated with the autopilot engaged, it may have
simply flown until the fuel ran out. If the autopilot was programmed to fly
it to the destination and then join a holding pattern, it could have done
this until it ran out of fuel.

If anyone handled the controls, the autopilot would have disengaged.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Derrick Steed wrote:

What I don't get is:

1. how you get a very hard to put out fuel fire from a crashed aeroplane
that was empty of fuel

2. considering that the flight was from Cyprus Larnaca to Athens and the
aircraft crashed on route - again, how come it ran out of fuel?

Our news reports (Western USA) said the aircraft flew over it's
destination at 35,000', so it doesn't sound like it ran out of fuel on
route. The crash seemed to be attributed to disengagement of the
autopilot, perhaps by someone, or by a problem in the system.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

In article et,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Bruce Hoult" wrote in message
...

I did not mention the FAA at all. I mentioned the training I received.


Yes, in response to a comment on the FAA requirement.

Yes, pointing out that altitudes and durations where oxygen is required
are, like automobile speed limits, is not a hard and fast
physically-significant thing but rathe a matter of someone's opinion,
and that opinions differ in different places.

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------

"Bruce Hoult" wrote in message
...

Yes, pointing out that altitudes and durations where oxygen is required
are, like automobile speed limits, is not a hard and fast
physically-significant thing but rathe a matter of someone's opinion,
and that opinions differ in different places.


I was just pointing out that you had mentioned the FAA.