L13/L23 gliders

Has this happened in the USA?

How much $$ for a "factory overhaul"? What is the turn around time?

Is the "factory" doing overhauls?



Cookie

Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
records...

On Feb 23, 5:27*pm, "
wrote:
Has this happened in the USA?

How much $$ for a "factory overhaul"? * What is the turn around time?

Is the "factory" doing overhauls?

Cookie



Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
records...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, the factory is not doing any work, nor supplying parts directly.
We need to band together and buy the TC a la Eclipse. Not likely,
IMO, based on the response on this board and the FAA comment page..

I believe there used to be a program where you sent your L13 to the
factory and got it back with zero timed wings.

No longer available as the manufacturer is concentrating on 40 year
old designs...

This is a 1956 design - pre Finite element analysis and CAD and all
those other things.
It was designed to build using the abundant cheap, skilled labour
available in the Soviet Union. I assume the factory stopped the rebuilds
because of simple economics...
You have to question whether it will be economically viable to keep
this fleet flying.

And - yes I have many hours of "unusual attitudes" in an L13, and it was
a lot of fun, and a good intermediate trainer. Wayne and I once did 11
consecutive loops at the end of a little cross country. But there's the
trouble, I doubt our club L13 had many flights that did not include at
least one steep turn, or chandelle, or whatever. That makes them all
aerobatic time - so the glider is scrap, under the current AD...
I would love there to be an economical way to return them to service,
but am not optimistic.

Bruce

On 2011/02/24 3:27 AM, wrote:
Has this happened in the USA?

How much $$ for a "factory overhaul"? What is the turn around time?

Is the "factory" doing overhauls?



Cookie

Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
records...

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

No longer available as the manufacturer is concentrating on 40 year
old designs...

This is a 1956 design - pre Finite element analysis and CAD and all
those other things.
It was designed to build using the abundant cheap, skilled labour
available in the Soviet Union. I assume the factory stopped the rebuilds
because of simple economics...
You have to question whether it will be economically *viable to keep
this fleet flying.

I would love there to be an economical way to return them to service,
but am not optimistic.

Bruce


--
Bruce Greeff

Right.........so this "Pavel" guy is still a joke!

I wish my (former) club would just face facts and "get over it".
Their Blanik is junk. We got about 20 years of service for about
$12,000..........not a bad deal at all.....$600 a year.....(especially
when you count the twenty previous years of service somebody else got)

Our airport does need a new wind tee........they were quoted several
thousand to have one fabricated....hmmmmm...

Cookie


Cookie

I sent in e-mail to Pavel to get his take on the L-13 Grounding...
here was the response:

Hi Tim,

Thank you for your email.

Yes, we are in close touch with LET and at this moment the new
inspection
method is developed and all documents and details about the wing root
area
inspection were sent to EASA for the final approval. If everything
goes
smooth we expect that at the beginning of March more information will
be
released.

The new inspection will be based on eddy current waves and should
allow the
check of wing root area without opening the wing.

When I get more information, I will contact you.

Thank you.

Best regards

Pavel Rind









On Feb 23, 6:38*pm, "Tim Mara" wrote:
he was talking about an L23 they inspected......
and for what I understand the L-13's are flying in the Czech
republic.....it's the rest of the world that is waiting for the official AD
resolution....
Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
records...those with sketchy records and dubious maintenance are the ones
that are causing the manufacture and CZ FAA the concerns......
and will be the cause of whatever additional inspections are necessary to
prove them airworthy..
tim

"sisu1a" wrote in message

...

You're kidding us right? (You seem to be overlooking just one
teeny,
tiny, small detail!!)

Cookie

Perhaps he's from that 1 country that didn't seem to get the memo...

-Paul

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On 2/24/2011 12:20 AM, wrote:

No, the factory is not doing any work, nor supplying parts directly.
We need to band together and buy the TC a la Eclipse. Not likely,
IMO, based on the response on this board and the FAA comment page..

Tim is in possession of a L-13 fresh out of a "factory overhaul". Maybe,
he will elaborate more, as to whether, it is considered eligible to be
airworthy by the FAA at this time, or, if, it requires more compliance work.

On Feb 24, 7:09*am, This "Cookie" guy wrote:

Right.........so this "Pavel" guy is still a joke!

Mr. Pavel Rind represents a large engineering/maintenance company that
EASA has certified as a Continuing Airworthiness Management
Organization (CAMO). These certifications are not just handed out.
It is an expensive endeavor to be certified, and it is a major
accomplishment, especially in Eastern Europe. The name of the company
is Air-Tech Ltd http://www.air-tech.cz/index-a.htm They do first
class work on a large number of airframes and powerplants.

Mr. Pavel Rind is leading a small group of engineers on a trip to
deliver a completely restored Blanik L-23 to a customer in the UK.
Recognizing that such service is unusual, Mr. Pavel Rind has taken it
upon himself to offer his team's expertise to other owner/operators of
Blanik gliders in Britain.

Mr. Pavel Rind is in close communication with Aircraft Industries a.s.
and the Prague Research and Testing Institute (the people who are
working on the L-13 problem). The first implementation of any
approved modification to the L-13 will probably take place under the
supervision of Mr. Pavel Rind.

Mr. Pavel Rind is a dedicated professional with our interests at
heart. He is a hero, not a joke.

On Feb 24, 9:11*am, Pat Russell wrote:
On Feb 24, 7:09*am, This "Cookie" guy wrote:



Right.........so this "Pavel" guy is still a joke!

Mr. Pavel Rind represents a large engineering/maintenance company that
EASA has certified as a Continuing Airworthiness Management
Organization (CAMO). *These certifications are not just handed out.
It is an expensive endeavor to be certified, and it is a major
accomplishment, especially in Eastern Europe. *The name of the company
is Air-Tech Ltdhttp://www.air-tech.cz/index-a.htm*They do first
class work on a large number of airframes and powerplants.

Mr. Pavel Rind is leading a small group of engineers on a trip to
deliver a completely restored Blanik L-23 to a customer in the UK.
Recognizing that such service is unusual, Mr. Pavel Rind has taken it
upon himself to offer his team's expertise to other owner/operators of
Blanik gliders in Britain.

Mr. Pavel Rind is in close communication with Aircraft Industries a.s.
and the Prague Research and Testing Institute (the people who are
working on the L-13 problem). *The first implementation of any
approved modification to the L-13 will probably take place under the
supervision of Mr. Pavel Rind.

Mr. Pavel Rind is a dedicated professional with our interests at
heart. *He is a hero, not a joke.

We'll see how this all pans out.........March begins in 5 days!

I still see the humor in the original post, which seems to have
avoided the issue of (almost) worldwide grounding of the L-13.

Cookie

amazing how few owners know about these, or if they know have ever attempted
to accomplish them.....pretty easy to hide from your local mechanic who is
doing the paper annuals too.if he doesn't research the glider documents he
won't find them and simply sign off the log book as being "airworthy".this
isn't just the L-13 Blaniks, I'm in constant amazement of how few know or
actually do what is required to maintain an airworthy glider....the TCDS
lists the basic requirements, the operators manuals and "supplementary
manuals for "tem limited" parts are supplied from the manufacturer..these
dictate most of what has to be done at " time " intervals.....
Most Blaniks had a 2000 TT limit when new, at that time they were "run out"
and no longer airworthy....but, if they were overhauled they then had
extended life limits, typically another 500 hours - 1000 hours depending on
which overhaul was accomplished....and so on...in Europe they could be
returned to the manufacturer, or to one of their approved repair
stations...here...you can buy from Blanik America the technical notes that
outline the overhauls, tough these were from the Australian aircraft
authority and then accepted by the US and recognized by LET as documents
outlining the overhaul procedures (contact Blanik America to find out more)
I believe the problem exists with the current AD because there is
insufficient data on many Blaniks and poor record keeping so the
manufacturer has no way they can simply come up with a blanket fix for
all....those with proper history, known history of the types of tows, number
of aerobatic hours ect. Blaniks in the Czech republic (I have to say that
they tend to take maintenance far more seriously there than the average
owners in N. America ) are typically well cared for, well maintained and
well documented....and for this the manufacture can take what data is
presented there and make the assumptions of what is needed to return each
one to service.
This may be a Blanik concern today but it doesn't mean all other gliders are
immune.....we need to start taking maintenance issues far more seriously
here.
contact Blanik America, he can get you the overhaul proceedures
tim

wrote in message
...
Has this happened in the USA?

How much $$ for a "factory overhaul"? What is the turn around time?

Is the "factory" doing overhauls?



Cookie

Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
records...

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 5905 (20110224) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com






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Ms? Cookie

I said nothing about Mr Rind, who I believe is a respected professional.

What I DID say is that the repair / maintenance for release to service
would probably be uneconomical . The opinion of the eddy current testing
professionals I spoke to around here is that the cost of special probes
and analysis required would probably be a substantial fraction of the
airframe's value. Considering that this test would probably have to be
repeated every 300-500 hours (one pessimist opined 100 hours) it becomes
a very expensive airframe to maintain in an airworthy state.

So - I hope to be proven wrong, and the comments from Mr Rind elsewhere
indicate that I may be.

Glider pilots are optimists - we have to be to get in an aircraft with
no means of propulsion and honestly expect to fly hundreds of
kilometres. Let's hope the optimism is justified in this case.

Cheers
Bruce

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57