Silver Distance Denied

All,

I was in Minden last week for the Wave Camp - had a great time. I flew my first (and longest!) solo cross country in a glider. I submitted the documentation for what I thought would be an acceptable Silver Distance, but it was rejected.

I was under the impression from what I've read here that "declare a flight, make at least one turn point, AND have a leg in the flight of at least 50km in there somewhere" was adequate.

I picked turn points north and south of Minden. After release, I headed south and chickened out well before the turn point. I headed north, gained some altitude (and admittedly comfort/confidence at this!). I slightly passed the northern turn point, and exactly crossed it headed south at 16,500'.

As I flew south, I slowly climbed. Shortly before the southern turn point, I was still in about a half knot of wave. I thought I flew over the southern turn point at 18,000'. It turns out I was slightly short.

The distance between the northern most and southern most points is 54km, yet it doesn't count?

Have I misunderstood what I've read here? I flew 185km that day; I'd never even made a cross country flight in a glider before, thought I had done it all right - a little frustrated.

I picked turn points further than 50km apart just in case I was a bit short, but didn't purposely turn before the turn point.

Thoughts?

Terry Pitts wrote:
All,

I was in Minden last week for the Wave Camp - had a great time. I flew my
first (and longest!) solo cross country in a glider. I submitted the
documentation for what I thought would be an acceptable Silver Distance,
but it was rejected.

I was under the impression from what I've read here that "declare a
flight, make at least one turn point, AND have a leg in the flight of at
least 50km in there somewhere" was adequate.

I picked turn points north and south of Minden. After release, I headed
south and chickened out well before the turn point. I headed north,
gained some altitude (and admittedly comfort/confidence at this!). I
slightly passed the northern turn point, and exactly crossed it headed south at 16,500'.

As I flew south, I slowly climbed. Shortly before the southern turn
point, I was still in about a half knot of wave. I thought I flew over
the southern turn point at 18,000'. It turns out I was slightly short.

The distance between the northern most and southern most points is 54km,
yet it doesn't count?

Have I misunderstood what I've read here? I flew 185km that day; I'd
never even made a cross country flight in a glider before, thought I had
done it all right - a little frustrated.

I picked turn points further than 50km apart just in case I was a bit
short, but didn't purposely turn before the turn point.

Thoughts?

If you declare a flight for a badge you need to make all turn points per
the sporting code. I understand your frustration, but that is how it is
defined in the rules.

The only way you could make silver distance without making your declared
turn point is to go straight out and land more than 50km away from your
start.

Peter

Hi Terry,

To amplify on the other comment a little bit...

The Sporting Code is very specific on many aspects. It pays to do a close read, preferably with someone experienced in badge and record flying looking over your shoulder.

So, without getting too technical, in your case:

- Sequence matters. When you "declare" a course, the points must be flown as indicated. So if you declared a task Start/Point A/Point B/Finish you need to go in that order. You can't decide after launch to go Start/Point B/Point A/Finish.
- "Making" a turnpoint has very specific requirements. "Almost" and "Nearly" aren't in the vocabulary. You either have to fly beyond a turnpoint if using the FAI Sector (pie wedge) or get within 500M if using the FAI Cylinder (beer can). 501 meters doesn't cut it.

There are many other subtleties that can affect a given flight. Start/Finish Heights and loss of altitude penalties nab a lot of silver distance claims. So does not understanding the options for start/finish points (lines vs. sectors).

Also, it is often possible to claim "something" out of a partially completed task. For instance if you declared a triangle where you completed only 2 of 3 legs but one was a 50Km leg, you MIGHT be able to make a silver distance out of it.

Finally, I would comment that a competent Official Observer should have been able to ascertain whether or not the flight would qualify prior to submitting to the SSA. That's a little troubling...

Erik Mann (P3)
Formerly Badge and Record Chairman for SSA


On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 9:27:13 AM UTC-4, Terry Pitts wrote:
All,

I was in Minden last week for the Wave Camp - had a great time. I flew my first (and longest!) solo cross country in a glider. I submitted the documentation for what I thought would be an acceptable Silver Distance, but it was rejected.

I was under the impression from what I've read here that "declare a flight, make at least one turn point, AND have a leg in the flight of at least 50km in there somewhere" was adequate.

I picked turn points north and south of Minden. After release, I headed south and chickened out well before the turn point. I headed north, gained some altitude (and admittedly comfort/confidence at this!). I slightly passed the northern turn point, and exactly crossed it headed south at 16,500'.

As I flew south, I slowly climbed. Shortly before the southern turn point, I was still in about a half knot of wave. I thought I flew over the southern turn point at 18,000'. It turns out I was slightly short.

The distance between the northern most and southern most points is 54km, yet it doesn't count?

Have I misunderstood what I've read here? I flew 185km that day; I'd never even made a cross country flight in a glider before, thought I had done it all right - a little frustrated.

I picked turn points further than 50km apart just in case I was a bit short, but didn't purposely turn before the turn point.

Thoughts?

On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 9:27:13 AM UTC-4, Terry Pitts wrote:

Thoughts?

Yeah. Read the rules, figure out what you didn't do by the book, go do it again. This is the nature of badge & record flying. Just about everyone has a rejected badge leg story to tell.

Keep in mind that while claims may be rejected, they didn't take the experience away from you: that's yours forever.

I'll never forget my first flight over 100 miles. Pure magic. Hooked for life.

Evan Ludeman / T8

On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 9:27:13 AM UTC-4, Terry Pitts wrote:

Thoughts?

Yes remember what the badge goal process is for. It is to recognize
achievement as you progress into a soaring pilot. Each badge is a little
more difficult then the last. The whole process is to encourage a pilot
to continue Soaring. For most of us it has become an addiction. Treat it
as such. You will learn a lot along the way. Just know that once you
accomplish the badges, you can also realize the difficulty you had and
that those after you are going through.
One rule to remember. Have fun doing it.
Also I second the iterations to have a competent Observer to help you
not only Observe your attempts, but also help plan it before you
attempt it so the attempt is not in vein.
D
ASW-20 (6A)

I didn't see the term, "Official Observer" mentioned in the post. Was
there one? If so, he should have rejected the claim before it was
submitted. It's part of the OO's job to not submit an invalid claim.

Terry, as soon as you said that you turned short of your first turn
point, I knew the claim was not valid. This is not government work or
the OLC so close enough does not count. To receive the badge (leg) you
must complete the task exactly per the rules, which you did not.

Two short examples: I once turned short of my point on a 500K diamond
flight because a thunder storm obscured it in a heavy downpour. I had
the distance, but not turnpoint number two. I told my observer and he
tossed my film can back at me. Not good enough.

For the other story, I once observed a 500K diamond triangle for a
friend. Trying to be sure he got a picture of his turn point (this was
in "the old days"), he took three shots. Unfortunately for him, all
three shots were taken before he entered the pie sector. I knew from
his ground track that he'd made the turn point but it was not properly
documented so I rejected the claim. I really hated doing that but the
badge is significant. It shows that you can plan and execute a flight,
not simply that it was "good enough".

Keep trying and follow the rules to the letter. A badge won't get you a
discount at Starbucks but those in the know will respect your
accomplishment and you'll be walking on air.

On 3/29/2015 7:27 AM, Terry Pitts wrote:
All,

I was in Minden last week for the Wave Camp - had a great time. I flew my first (and longest!) solo cross country in a glider. I submitted the documentation for what I thought would be an acceptable Silver Distance, but it was rejected.

I was under the impression from what I've read here that "declare a flight, make at least one turn point, AND have a leg in the flight of at least 50km in there somewhere" was adequate.

I picked turn points north and south of Minden. After release, I headed south and chickened out well before the turn point. I headed north, gained some altitude (and admittedly comfort/confidence at this!). I slightly passed the northern turn point, and exactly crossed it headed south at 16,500'.

As I flew south, I slowly climbed. Shortly before the southern turn point, I was still in about a half knot of wave. I thought I flew over the southern turn point at 18,000'. It turns out I was slightly short.

The distance between the northern most and southern most points is 54km, yet it doesn't count?

Have I misunderstood what I've read here? I flew 185km that day; I'd never even made a cross country flight in a glider before, thought I had done it all right - a little frustrated.

I picked turn points further than 50km apart just in case I was a bit short, but didn't purposely turn before the turn point.

Thoughts?

--
Dan Marotta

Terry,

Although technically your flight was not qualified according to the rules, you obviously had a better flight than the minimum requirements.
So if you are not satisfied with the complex strict rules, as I would be, just use OLC.
The badges were invented well before OLC as the only way one could have measured their progress. I believe now with OLC and the likes (Crosscountry.aero, skylines) badges are mostly obsolete and you can easily track, measure and document your progress with OLC. And if you still want to pre declare your tasks, you can do so with OLC BHC.

Ramy

unless you want to pay money to get shiny bling to put on your bucket hat.

Brad

I just cut to the chase and pursued the Diamond and got it thanks to Cindy Brickner at Cal City. Attempting a 750 km diploma I was denied because my open landing my wheel stop was like 43 seconds after sunset, go figure!

True, following the lift lines will get you more time, distance, and
speed and it proves that you can go where the lift is. But badges prove
that you can plan in advance and execute a flight per that plan under a
stringent set of rules regardless of where the lift is.

You want to toot your own horn? Go fly under the cloud street. You
want the respect of your peers? Prove that you can follow in the steps
of the greats of soaring. Sure it's work but nothing worthwhile is easy.

Dan

On 3/31/2015 9:55 PM, Ramy wrote:
Terry,

Although technically your flight was not qualified according to the rules, you obviously had a better flight than the minimum requirements.
So if you are not satisfied with the complex strict rules, as I would be, just use OLC.
The badges were invented well before OLC as the only way one could have measured their progress. I believe now with OLC and the likes (Crosscountry.aero, skylines) badges are mostly obsolete and you can easily track, measure and document your progress with OLC. And if you still want to pre declare your tasks, you can do so with OLC BHC.

Ramy

--
Dan Marotta