Near mishap today

About 3 seconds..

Cherokee Warrior, Lyc O 320...

Dave






On Fri, 7 May 2010 10:00:10 -0700 (PDT), a wrote:

On May 7, 11:41*am, Mark wrote:
On May 7, 10:06*am, "Æslop" wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message

...

Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.

But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
the descent. Is that what you mean?

Your CFI should have been doing that. All of mine did, every time. Prevents
such occurrences.

I'm speechless.

We have a choice of appx.7 cfi's to choose from at
this academy. *I'll try another. If the head instructor
knew, this one would be fired.

In hindsight, the gravity of what happened yesterday is
serious. I barely had time to pull out. On the way back
up I was compelled to keep scanning that field. It looked
possible but there was something barely visible running
across it. Now I'm thinking it was a ditch.

It would be useful to simply ask your CFI what happened. "Hands
flying all over" doesn't cut it, there are only a few things to do.
My guess would have been carb ice: If you were coming down from 4500
to say 1000 at 500 fpm that would be 6 to 8 minutes of throttle closed
gliding. If the RH was high I am not at all sure I'd expect carb heat
to keep ahead of the icing for that length of time, but others more
expert with those airplanes may have a different opinion.

My Mooney has an injected engine, but when coming down from altitude
it is very rarely with a closed throttle, and cowl flaps are in play
too, engines are to be babied and thermal shock is a bad thing. For
that matter, the time the throttle is moved the fastest, and even then
it's not very fast, is when I decide to go around.

Here's a question for the aviators among us. How long do you take to
go from idle to take-off power when you're "position and hold" to
"cleared for immediate"? As I sit here and think about it, I'm
guessing it takes me a slow count to 5 to get to full throttle, and
that is assuming RPMs follow throttle position pretty closely.
.

.

On May 7, 1:00*pm, a wrote:
On May 7, 11:41*am, Mark wrote:



On May 7, 10:06*am, "Æslop" wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message

....

Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.

But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
the descent. Is that what you mean?

Your CFI should have been doing that. All of mine did, every time. Prevents
such occurrences.

I'm speechless.

We have a choice of appx.7 cfi's to choose from at
this academy. *I'll try another. If the head instructor
knew, this one would be fired.

In hindsight, the gravity of what happened yesterday is
serious. I barely had time to pull out. On the way back
up I was compelled to keep scanning that field. It looked
possible but there was something barely visible running
across it. Now I'm thinking it was a ditch.

It would be useful to simply ask your CFI what happened.

Yes, I've been trying to catch up with him to do that, but
now I'm convinced that it was not clearing the engine.
We spent considerable time going over the radio calls
and frequency, along with incidentals, ie, fuel cut-off,
opening the door in the event of a bent frame on
on impact, etc.


*"Hands
flying all over" doesn't cut it, there are only a few things to do.

Not "all over", but just an extremely fast combination of
manuvers that made the engine respond.(carb heat and
throttle)

My guess would have been carb ice: If you were coming down from 4500
to say 1000 at 500 fpm that would be 6 to 8 minutes of throttle closed
gliding.

Yes.

If the RH was high I am not at all sure I'd expect carb heat
to keep ahead of the icing for that length of time, but others more
expert with those airplanes may have a different opinion.

Cessna 150 in this case. I fly others.

My Mooney has an injected engine, but when coming down from
altitude
it is very rarely with a closed throttle, and cowl flaps are in play
too, engines are to be babied and thermal shock is a bad thing. For
that matter, the time the throttle is moved the fastest, and even then
it's not very fast, is when I decide to go around.

Here's a question for the aviators among us. How long do you take to
go from idle to take-off power when you're "position and hold" to
"cleared for immediate"? As I sit here and think about it, I'm
guessing it takes me a slow count to 5 to get to full throttle, and
that is assuming RPMs follow throttle position pretty closely.
.

.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On May 7, 2:15*pm, Ari wrote:
On Fri, 7 May 2010 10:00:10 -0700 (PDT), a wrote:
Here's a question for the aviators among us. How long do you take to
go from idle to take-off power when you're "position and hold" to
"cleared for immediate"? As I sit here and think about it, I'm
guessing it takes me a slow count to 5 to get to full throttle, and
that is assuming RPMs follow throttle position pretty closely.

In my Velocity...

I didn't realize you had a Velocity. I understand
they are pitch sensitive.

---
Mark

On May 8, 7:10*am, Mark wrote:
On May 7, 1:00*pm, a wrote:



On May 7, 11:41*am, Mark wrote:

On May 7, 10:06*am, "Æslop" wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message

...

Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.

But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
the descent. Is that what you mean?

Your CFI should have been doing that. All of mine did, every time. Prevents
such occurrences.

I'm speechless.

We have a choice of appx.7 cfi's to choose from at
this academy. *I'll try another. If the head instructor
knew, this one would be fired.

In hindsight, the gravity of what happened yesterday is
serious. I barely had time to pull out. On the way back
up I was compelled to keep scanning that field. It looked
possible but there was something barely visible running
across it. Now I'm thinking it was a ditch.

It would be useful to simply ask your CFI what happened.

Yes, I've been trying to catch up with him to do that, but
now I'm convinced that it was not clearing the engine.
We spent considerable time going over the radio calls
and frequency, along with incidentals, ie, fuel cut-off,
opening the door in the event of a bent frame on
on impact, etc.

**"Hands

flying all over" doesn't cut it, there are only a few things to do.

Not "all over", but just an extremely fast combination of
manuvers that made the engine respond.(carb heat and
throttle)

My guess would have been carb ice: If you were coming down from 4500
to say 1000 at 500 fpm that would be 6 to 8 minutes of throttle closed
gliding.

Yes.

If the RH was high I am not at all sure I'd expect carb heat
to keep ahead of the icing for that length of time, but others more
expert with those airplanes may have a different opinion.

Cessna 150 in this case. I fly others.

* My Mooney has an injected engine, but when coming down from
altitude

it is very rarely with a closed throttle, and cowl flaps are in play
too, engines are to be babied and thermal shock is a bad thing. For
that matter, the time the throttle is moved the fastest, and even then
it's not very fast, is when I decide to go around.
Here's a question for the aviators among us. How long do you take to
go from idle to take-off power when you're "position and hold" to
"cleared for immediate"? As I sit here and think about it, I'm
guessing it takes me a slow count to 5 to get to full throttle, and
that is assuming RPMs follow throttle position pretty closely.
.

.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Real life stuff.

maintain control!

Carb heat

maintain control
Mixture
maintain control
fuel pump
maintain control
switch tanks

a/s for best endurance

then if not talking to ATC call 121.5


Once long ago in a Mooney Ranger (not an injected engine) I had the
carb heat cable fail during a NDB approach in IMC. I tried everything
on the check list, then prop pitch, landing lights, landing gear,
cowl flaps etc. Turns out -- this is the lesson, guys -- if there's
a lot of carb ice, leaning the mixture works. It gave me enough engine
to get to an alternate. Some people know how to make an engine
backfire -- that is, ignite the mixture in the intake manifold and
blow out carb ice. I don't know how to do that, and since my airplane
gets pulled by an IO 360 I don't worry about that anymore.