airworthiness certificate

On Tuesday, February 7, 2017 at 6:52:15 PM UTC-7, Casey wrote:
A specific place is required for phase one testing.

Wow! Are you saying that a purchase triggers a total re-certification process, including phase I and II testing?

Phase one and two testing are only done once but are restricted to one location. I'm not sure if a new airworthiness cert is "require" after testing but I requested a new one so as to have no confusion. The way mine was written it did not sound like it was restricting but a new airworthiness cert is no big deal with only showing that testing has been completed from an entry in log.

On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 4:01:16 AM UTC-7, Casey wrote:
Phase one and two testing are only done once but are restricted to one location. I'm not sure if a new airworthiness cert is "require" after testing but I requested a new one so as to have no confusion. The way mine was written it did not sound like it was restricting but a new airworthiness cert is no big deal with only showing that testing has been completed from an entry in log.

OK. Many thanks to all you guys for the help. I bought the Kestrel pre '93, when none of these arcane (to me) rules were in play.

I know I sound a little jittery about dealing with the faa, but I read about some poor guy who asked them an innocent question about a Pegasus he was buying, and the result was mandatory grounding of any Pegasus over 3000 hours, with no certification renewal. That took a few years to straighten out..

You guys are really patient with my newby questions - I just want to make sure I don't put my foot in it.

Del

On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 8:23:44 AM UTC-7, Del Jensen wrote:
On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 4:01:16 AM UTC-7, Casey wrote:
Phase one and two testing are only done once but are restricted to one location. I'm not sure if a new airworthiness cert is "require" after testing but I requested a new one so as to have no confusion. The way mine was written it did not sound like it was restricting but a new airworthiness cert is no big deal with only showing that testing has been completed from an entry in log.

OK. Many thanks to all you guys for the help. I bought the Kestrel pre '93, when none of these arcane (to me) rules were in play.

I know I sound a little jittery about dealing with the faa, but I read about some poor guy who asked them an innocent question about a Pegasus he was buying, and the result was mandatory grounding of any Pegasus over 3000 hours, with no certification renewal. That took a few years to straighten out.

You guys are really patient with my newby questions - I just want to make sure I don't put my foot in it.

Del

When I bought an "experimental" Discus 2 from Colorado and brought it to Arizona, our local FSDO inspected it and issued a new airworthiness for me. It required Phase 1 and 2 testing (as if it were a home-constructed experimental) However, they did not require notification that these tests had been carried out or subsequent inspection - just logbook entries to verify they had been done. It restricted flying to my home base in Arizona, unless I notified them. For notification, I e-mailed a program letter to the FSDO listing places I would fly. If anything changed - I just e-mailed a revised program letter. As long as there's nothing in their database indicating problems with your glider type or model, this process should be straightforward.

Mike

When I purchased my "experimental" glider and moved it from MI to MN, I had the same experience as Mike except that I was not required to repeat the Phase 1 and 2 testing of the glider.

I had a very good experience with the local FSDO. One meeting at their office, one glider inspection at the field, and I was handed the new airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. (The new OLs were less restrictive than the previous OLs.)

I was told it was the glider changing FSDOs that required the new airworthiness certificate.

Lou

When I bought my last "Experimental" in Texas and moved it to New
Mexico, I mailed in my registration application to the FAA, modified the
existing program letter from TX, and emailed it to the ABQ FSDO. Then I
flew happily for five years (submitting an updated letter each January)
with no further contact with the FAA. Then we got a new inspector at
the FSDO and he wanted me to revise the letter. We had several meetings
and finally got a letter that satisfied him.

I asked him why my previous letter was no longer acceptable and he told
me a little story. He said when he joined the FAA an attended FSDO
training, the instructor told them, "Welcome to FSDO, 87 independently
owned and operated offices." That reminded me that, when I qualified in
the Air Force Sabreliner in the St. Louis area, I was told that getting
a type rating there would not remove the "center line thrust"
restriction on my multi-engine license. When I returned to my duty
station in Florida, I received a type rating without the center line
restriction. Bottom line is, different region, different interpretation
of the rules. YMMV.

On 2/9/2017 8:48 AM, MNLou wrote:
When I purchased my "experimental" glider and moved it from MI to MN, I had the same experience as Mike except that I was not required to repeat the Phase 1 and 2 testing of the glider.

I had a very good experience with the local FSDO. One meeting at their office, one glider inspection at the field, and I was handed the new airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. (The new OLs were less restrictive than the previous OLs.)

I was told it was the glider changing FSDOs that required the new airworthiness certificate.

Lou

--
Dan, 5J

The format for the program letter has changed over the years. 8130.2H is the current policy
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...mentid/1027070

On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 10:11:03 AM UTC-7, Tom (TK) wrote:
The format for the program letter has changed over the years. 8130.2H is the current policy
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...mentid/1027070

My FSDO has a form letter. Fill in the blanks, PDF it, e-mail it in. They will file it in case of future reference.

At 22:56 09 February 2017, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 10:11:03 AM UTC-7, Tom (TK) wrote:
The format for the program letter has changed over the years. 8130.2H
is
the current policy

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...mentid/1027070

My FSDO has a form letter. Fill in the blanks, PDF it, e-mail it in.
They
will file it in case of future reference.


Living in the UK I am curious, what is Phase 1 and 2 testing?

Vernon,

From AC No: 20-27G:

"14. Phase I Flight Testing.
a. Flight Tests. Section 91.319(b) requires you to show that your aircraft is controllable at all its normal speeds during all the maneuvers you might expect to execute. You also need to show that your aircraft has no hazardous operating characteristics or design features.
b. Number of Flight Test Hours. The number of hours depends on your aircraft’s characteristics. See table 7 below for specific requirements. The FAA may decide you need additional hours of flight testing beyond those shown in the table to comply with § 91.319(b)." & etc.

This is primarily directed at home built, but many gliders in the US are certified as experimental. I'm not sure why that is so, but I suspect that if for some reason the feds revoke your standard certification, is is much easier to make mods under the experimental cert (as opposed to the standard cert) in order to get your machine back up in the air. Just changing out your variometer for something new can invalidate your certificate if the factory originally stipulated a particular vario.

As to what kind of mods can require you to redo phase I and II, I get the impression that it is up to the local FSDO, who acts as the regional interpreter of the federal regs.

Del