13 meter class

I'd like to know what your opinions are on gliders with 13/13.5 meter span. I would personally be really interested in lighter/smaller gliders with good performance. What are prices on some? I found the GP 11 to be starting at € 69k without VAT.

You probably don’t want our opinion on the 13.5 meter class. So far it is a waste of time and resources. For light weight gliders the GP15 will be nearly as light as the 11 or 14 with better performance for very little extra cost. The 13.5 meter class should have never been approved by the FAI and has never attracted any real interest. It is similar to the failed World Class gliders and the newly proposed e-glider.

Back to gliders less than 15m, there is a minimum mass required for a fuselage and pilot, with modern materials the difference in weight for a 13.5 or 15m wing makes very little difference but impact of wingloading and performance are significant.

Smaller and lighter stuff is the way to go for me. After testflying the MiniLAK , Silent2Electro and visiting GPGliders in Poland I just ordered a MiniLak(FES).
GP11 is a very interesting product too, but deliverytime is 3 years (or more). I like the idea of small electric selflaunchers, hopefully this class will grow...

On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 7:02:30 AM UTC-8, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
I'd like to know what your opinions are on gliders with 13/13.5 meter span. I would personally be really interested in lighter/smaller gliders with good performance. What are prices on some? I found the GP 11 to be starting at € 69k without VAT.

Wings are too short, they should be 18 meters or more.

Exactly my thought, but I have limited budget and just got myself a DG 101, but very interested in shorter span. Less weight and good performance is nice.

On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 11:46:51 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 7:02:30 AM UTC-8, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
I'd like to know what your opinions are on gliders with 13/13.5 meter span. I would personally be really interested in lighter/smaller gliders with good performance. What are prices on some? I found the GP 11 to be starting at € 69k without VAT.

Wings are too short, they should be 18 meters or more.

Nah, 18m is way too short. You *need* at least 25m. :-)

For most of us, there are limits on the wingspan, whether due to money, airfield/towplane limitations, or body strength for rigging. I say: buy a glider you like and can afford, and make the best of it. In a 13.5m glider you won't cover quite as much distance on a given day as in an 18m glider, but you'll fly as much time and have as much fun. Maybe more fun, since the rigging and ground handling were easy and the glider is very responsive in the air. And in the hands of skilled pilots, short-wing gliders can fly quite far - check out the results of the 13.5 contests. 200-500km tasks he
https://www.soaringspot.com/en/2nd-f...-on-2017-07-08

Disclaimer: I fly a 12.6m glider. My previous glider was 16.6m.

They are cheaper to buy new, but I haven't seen any being sold second hand. Performance wise they are quite all right and being light does make rigging and handling on the ground a lot easier, which is one of the main reasons I would be interested in one.

Senna,

Let me tell you my opinion about what 13.5 meters did for our Club.

For the longest time, we thought our members needed access to a single-seat 15-meter glider. With this, they could try cross-country, we thought. Eventually, members might buy their own 15-meter glider and go big time. Well, that was not happening.

Then, we acquired a Russia. That got the Club interested in cross-country; but still, they were not breaking the string between their comfort and getting beyond glide of home base. For those of us with 15-meter cross-country experience, we didn’t realize that we were not relating to the members who wanted to fly cross-country, but not the way the rest of us were thinking. These 13.5-meter cross-country pilots were tickled silly to fly a 50 km flight. Who’d a thunk it.

Then, we acquired a PW-5. We held ground school sessions for the glider; the attendance was spectacular. We had solo student pilots checking out. The PW-5 schedule filled up to the point where members overflowed into the Russia.

Now we call it the 27-meter pilots.

Raul Boerner
CFI
BFSS

wrote on 12/24/2018 5:56 PM:

Senna,

Let me tell you my opinion about what 13.5 meters did for our Club.

For the longest time, we thought our members needed access to a single-seat 15-meter glider. With this, they could try cross-country, we thought. Eventually, members might buy their own 15-meter glider and go big time. Well, that was not happening.

Then, we acquired a Russia. That got the Club interested in cross-country; but still, they were not breaking the string between their comfort and getting beyond glide of home base. For those of us with 15-meter cross-country experience, we didn’t realize that we were not relating to the members who wanted to fly cross-country, but not the way the rest of us were thinking. These 13.5-meter cross-country pilots were tickled silly to fly a 50 km flight. Who’d a thunk it.

Then, we acquired a PW-5. We held ground school sessions for the glider; the attendance was spectacular. We had solo student pilots checking out. The PW-5 schedule filled up to the point where members overflowed into the Russia.

Now we call it the 27-meter pilots.

Why did the PW5 energize the students/others so much more than the Russia? I've
flown both, and they seem nearly the same.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

Why did the PW5 energize the students/others so much more than the Russia? I've
flown both, and they seem nearly the same.

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)

Eric,

While the performance is almost the same, the Russia has the retractable landing gear. Our model has a very flat wing angle of incidence requiring very good speed control on short final and during the transition to touchdown, to avoid too much tail wheel first. Thirdly, our particular model had very poor braking (we have recently installed a hydraulic brake system). These things spooked the lower time pilots and students.

The PW-5 is configured similarly to the ASK-21. So, we require a couple of flights in the ASK-21 for those who have not flown fiberglass, and to get used to the wheel configuration. The PW-5 is less pitch sensitive than the Russia.

For those who have not flown retractable landing gear, we require a couple of flights with an instructor in the L-23, raising and lowering the landing gear, before soloing the Russia. We watch their checklist procedures closely. In the past, we had several gear up landings so we are trying to reduce this possibility.

Raul Boerner