interesting moment yesterday on final

So I went for a lovely flight yesterday, from Bedford (KBED) down to
Nantucket (KACK) for dinner. We flew down there in the last hour or so
of daylight with a smooth ride and great views, and then returned at
night with an even smoother ride and great night-time views, including
a few circles over Harvard, MIT and Back Bay on the way home. ATC were
very accommodating since it was fairly late.

Bedford tower was closed so I was on the CTAF frequency as I
approached the field. I was initially thinking of taking runway 24
since the winds were 190. When I announced my imminent arrival in the
vicinity of the field an aircraft informed me they were on final for
11. They also mentioned an aircraft in the area that was at 5,000 and
on an IFR flight plan but not talking to ATC, possibly inbound for
landing as well.

Armed with this information, I changed my plan and entered a downwind
leg for 11 (since the winds were not strong and that seemed to be the
established pattern). I announced my downwind leg, my base and my
final (looking out for traffic all the way). When I was at 1 mile
final, I hear

"Nxxxx, 3 mile final for 11, Bedford"
I respond with "I am 1 mile final for 11, Bedford"
He responds with "We'll slow it down"
This doesn't comfort me that much, since I'm only going 65 knots.
Maybe I should have said this to him at the time.
Then he comes in again with "We're going to break off our approach, do
a 360 and rejoin"
As I'm at 50ft, he says "Have you landed yet"
I reply with "Just about to touch down"

Then I land, clear the runway, inform him I am clear, and then he
lands. Everything works out fine although my landing isn't exactly a
greaser.

I didn't feel that great about the incident: did I do something wrong?
Why didn't I see him on final before I turned final (I specifically
remember looking in that direction before turning final)? What if the
timings had been slightly different?

And for his part, shouldn't he have been on the frequency and known I
was in the pattern? Shouldn't his first call have been a lot sooner
than 3 mile final? Shouldn't he have flown a circuit rather than come
straight in? I'm assuming he wasn't in any kind of emergency situation
as he would have asked me to go around.

Thoughts appreciated, especially from those with extensive flying
experience.

Tom

On Apr 27, 1:13 pm, Tom wrote:
[snippage of uncomfortably close call at non-towered field]
Tom

It doesn't sound to me like you did anything wrong. If he was only two
miles away and facing you I would think that you'd see his landing
light - assuming he has it on.

I fly out of a towered airport and did all my training out of there.
I'm still getting comfortable with non-towered. That said, it is not
at all uncommon for folks to do straight in approaches at non-towered
airports. I personally am at least listening on the CTAF 10 miles out
and announce at 5. I think that's prudent. I also have my landing
light on from 10 miles out. I've never done a straight in to a non-
towered airport, but I don't find them particularly dangerous to be
around _providing_ the other pilot is listening, talking and watching.
If he just switched to the freq at 3 miles, didn't have his landing
light on yet then that's dangerous.

IMHO,
John Stevens
PP-ASEL

wrote:
On Apr 27, 1:13 pm, Tom wrote:
[snippage of uncomfortably close call at non-towered field]

Tom


It doesn't sound to me like you did anything wrong. If he was only two
miles away and facing you I would think that you'd see his landing
light - assuming he has it on.

I fly out of a towered airport and did all my training out of there.
I'm still getting comfortable with non-towered. That said, it is not
at all uncommon for folks to do straight in approaches at non-towered
airports. I personally am at least listening on the CTAF 10 miles out
and announce at 5. I think that's prudent. I also have my landing
light on from 10 miles out. I've never done a straight in to a non-
towered airport, but I don't find them particularly dangerous to be
around _providing_ the other pilot is listening, talking and watching.
If he just switched to the freq at 3 miles, didn't have his landing
light on yet then that's dangerous.

IMHO,
John Stevens
PP-ASEL


At our uncontrolled airport there were three planes in the pattern for
landing. A plane calls out that he is 5 miles for the straight in. I
replied that with the traffic, traditional pattern may be appropriate.
He called that he would enter the correct pattern.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

"Ross" wrote in message
...

At our uncontrolled airport there were three planes in the pattern for
landing. A plane calls out that he is 5 miles for the straight in. I
replied that with the traffic, traditional pattern may be appropriate.

Why?

Tom wrote:

And for his part, shouldn't he have been on the frequency and known I
was in the pattern? Shouldn't his first call have been a lot sooner
than 3 mile final? Shouldn't he have flown a circuit rather than come
straight in? I'm assuming he wasn't in any kind of emergency situation
as he would have asked me to go around.

Thoughts appreciated, especially from those with extensive flying
experience.

Tom


If he was IFR its possible ATC did not clear him to go to advisory
frequency soon enough, for whatever reason... maybe he did not have
the airport in sight soon enough. I like to be over on the local
frequency by at least 5 miles out.

Anyway you did what you had to do and he did what he had to do.

My first reaction is that I'm surprised that he wasn't looking for you,
given that he was attempting a straight-in from only 3 miles out with
known traffic in the pattern. He shouldn't have had to ask whether you
landed yet or not.

My guess is that he switched to the frequency and then immediately
called his 3 mile final, so he didn't initially know I was in the
pattern. I think he was probably half way through his 360 when he
asked if I had landed or not.


At uncontrolled fields anything can happen, and should be watched for. The
uncontrolled field I use most often has two crossing runways and *no*
established pattern. It isn't unusual to have several planes in the
pattern as well as incoming traffic of various kinds from biz jets to
biplanes and helos. People come in as they wish, and only those with
radios can announce. Gives "see and avoid" a bit of signficance! ;-)


Must be interesting.

"Tom" wrote ...
Bedford tower was closed so I was on the CTAF frequency as I
approached the field.
... (another plane mentions) an aircraft in the area that was at 5,000
and on an IFR flight plan but not talking to ATC, possibly inbound for
landing as well.

This sounds like misinformation.


I didn't feel that great about the incident: did I do something wrong?
Why didn't I see him on final before I turned final (I specifically
remember looking in that direction before turning final)? What if the
timings had been slightly different?

It sounds like it went very well (both you and the other pilot). You
announced 1 mile final, he said he'd slow down but then realized the
futility of that and did a different maneuver to get better spacing behind
you.

As far as looking down final, ...the base leg is a busy period where you're
rolling level, maintaining your decent, watching your airspeed, maybe adding
flaps, looking for your landing point, and clearing the final approach for
any other inbound. Lots of times, if you are not aware of an actual inbound,
that "look" is just cursory and short of a 747 with lights on, you'll miss
that traffic. Also, pilots do not always report the distances accurately.
Sounds like he may have initiated a standard rate 360 and called you on roll
out, which would be about 2 minutes later. But you state a 1 mile final, and
approx two minutes later you were 50agl, that's a long time for a no wind 1
mile final.

But again, the events you describe sound pretty routine for after hour ops
at any airport under a B or C shelf. When I first learned to fly I actually
avoided non-towered fields because planes seemed to pop out of the strangest
places.
Places I know I just looked and were empty. ;-o

wrote:

On Apr 27, 1:13 pm, Tom wrote:
[snippage of uncomfortably close call at non-towered field]

Tom


It doesn't sound to me like you did anything wrong. If he was only two
miles away and facing you I would think that you'd see his landing
light - assuming he has it on.

I fly out of a towered airport and did all my training out of there.
I'm still getting comfortable with non-towered. That said, it is not
at all uncommon for folks to do straight in approaches at non-towered
airports.

However, it is HIGHLY annoying.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Ross" wrote in message
...

At our uncontrolled airport there were three planes in the pattern for
landing. A plane calls out that he is 5 miles for the straight in. I
replied that with the traffic, traditional pattern may be appropriate.


Why?



Because straight in approaches at an uncontrolled airport
disrupt the pattern that everyone is using. Perhaps if there
were no other traffic at the time, it would be perfectly fine
but when everyone is in line and doing their thing, someone
cutting in sucks. There is a fairly large municipal airport
nearby that accommodates jets and sometimes, we single engine
folk have to anticipate them, but it still disrupts things.

Tom wrote:

My first reaction is that I'm surprised that he wasn't looking for you,
given that he was attempting a straight-in from only 3 miles out with
known traffic in the pattern. He shouldn't have had to ask whether you
landed yet or not.


My guess is that he switched to the frequency and then immediately
called his 3 mile final, so he didn't initially know I was in the
pattern.

Inconsiderate and unsafe.