Presidential TFR violations in Seattle?

sorry.. confused the Presidential TFR with another TFR "pop-up" I read,
turned out to be a pop up TFR for an aircraft accident in Minn

B (look and read more carefully) T

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


BTIZ wrote:

I've not heard of a TFR that was only 3 nm wide.. not a presidential one
anyway..

I saw no reference to a 3 mile TFR in C.J.'s post.

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.

C J Campbell wrote:

On the return trip I was told that the effective time of the TFR had been
extended "for at least an hour." So much for those pilots who probably got
briefings, but expected that the TFR would be closed by the time they got
there. No doubt there were dozens of aircraft caught by that little stunt.

The lack of communication is ridiculous, but then there cannot be effective
communication given that these conditions are changed - literally - at whim
of one politician.

I was caught outside of a Bush TFR when that shouldn't have happened. I was
flying out of TEB, which was right beyond the edge (no doubt deliberately
to avoid annoying the corporate traffic which flies out of there). On my
way back, I was getting advisories. I was told by ATC that TEB was closed
now due to the Bush TFR.

I landed at Stewart, and made some phone calls. Neither the FBO at TEB nor
the tower at TEB knew that they were closed!

Unbelievable.

- Andrew

Phil Boyer will be coming to my area for a 'town meeting' next month. I
wanted to ask if it would be okay with you to show him a print out of his
post. I know AOPA has been trying to get examples of the effects of the
pop-up presidential TFR's and I thought yours would be a good example to
show him in the meeting (I've been to other 'town meetings with him and he's
been exceptionally approachable and helpful to me).

Just wanted to ask you first, though!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
It took me 40 minutes to get through to the FSS on the phone this morning.
I
had a student at 8:00 am and then a charter at 11:00. Tacoma Narrows fell
within the 30 nm TFR. The briefer told me that nine planes had been forced
down in Redmond, OR, the previous day. The FSS confirmed for me that the
TFR
did not start until 11:40, so I flew with the student. I then filed my VFR
flight plan to Prosser (which is just outside of the other Presidential
TFR
for the day in Pasco -- apparently Air Force One and I would be passing
each
other). The briefer told me to call again if I was going to be late
departing because he would need to modify my flight plan to a quasi-IFR
flight plan.

My charter passenger did not show up until 11:00, so departure was pushed
back to 11:30. The briefer told me to be absolutely certain to open my
flight plan and get my squawk code before departing TIW. Unfortunately, I
could not raise Seattle FSS on the radio while on the ground at TIW, so
following the briefer's instructions I told the tower that I could not
reach
them. The tower gave me a squawk and told me to open my flight plan in the
air. I said that I had been specifically told not to do that. The tower
said
that, despite what FSS had told me, that was the procedure that I needed
to
use and the squawk would protect me. @#$!

I figured that the TFR would not be active for another ten minutes and I
would be outside of it by then, anyway, so I blasted out of there and
headed
straight for Olympia, contacting FSS and Seattle Approach for flight
following. As instructed, I monitored 121.5. During the next 40 minutes or
so I heard at least half a dozen aircraft hailed on guard: one at Port
Townsend, one at Whidbey, one at Bremerton, one over Sultan, another over
Tiger Mountain doing circles at 1500 feet, and another over Crest Air
Park.
The aircraft at Bremerton and Crest were told to land immediately and call
Seattle Approach and were warned that they would be met on the ground. The
others were told to leave the TFR immediately and given vectors. All of
the
aircraft were squawking 1200 so they were not making any attempt to hide
themselves. I did not hear responses from any of the aircraft, which did
not
surprise me. I suspect a couple of the planes might have been Canadians
who
had not been told about the TFRs.

There were three other TFRs along the way for forest fires, but I already
knew about them and had planned my route around them.

Guard was busier than ATC the whole time I was west of the Cascades. I was
shocked at the magnitude of the problem and so was my passenger, an
attorney. The system is broken, no doubt about it. My passenger wondered
how
so many pilots apparently had no inkling that the President was visiting
or
that there might be restrictions because of it. I explained that my
student
that very morning did not know the President was visiting, and that this
student is a graduate of the Air Force Academy receiving his initial pilot
training -- ostensibly not some ignorant dummy (he is sharp -- I am very
proud of him).

On the return trip I was told that the effective time of the TFR had been
extended "for at least an hour." So much for those pilots who probably got
briefings, but expected that the TFR would be closed by the time they got
there. No doubt there were dozens of aircraft caught by that little stunt.
Again, my passenger was surprised that, despite all the security, we were
allowed to fly right over McChord AFB, where we got to see a C-5 on final.
I
think the whole flight left him just shaking his head at how screwed up
things can get.

No doubt we will see a repeat performance when the Democratic candidate
comes to visit next year. If there are any pilots left who still have
their
licenses.

Unfortunately I had to decline my very nice invitation to have lunch with
the President for only $2,000. I am sure that I would have treasured my
photograph of him shaking my hand forever. Nonetheless, I had work to do,
and I feel that he has already cost me plenty as it is.

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:02:03 -0700, Tom S. wrote:

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
|
| I figured that the TFR would not be active for another ten minutes and I
| would be outside of it by then, anyway, so I blasted out of there and
headed
| straight for Olympia

Just a philosophical note: I never dreamed that one day the arrival of the
Leader of the Free World would make me run like a wet hen.

Is he a president, or a emperor/king?

How about 'little Napoleon'?

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin Johnson ....... ~
~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I offer the following solution to keeping our beloved president safe and
keeping the GA skies friendly and sane. The pres should stay the hell in
Washington, DC and use video conferencing. If major corporations can do it,
and save a bunch of travel bucks in the process, why not the pres?


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
It took me 40 minutes to get through to the FSS on the phone this morning.
I
had a student at 8:00 am and then a charter at 11:00. Tacoma Narrows fell
within the 30 nm TFR. The briefer told me that nine planes had been forced
down in Redmond, OR, the previous day. The FSS confirmed for me that the
TFR
did not start until 11:40, so I flew with the student. I then filed my VFR
flight plan to Prosser (which is just outside of the other Presidential
TFR
for the day in Pasco -- apparently Air Force One and I would be passing
each
other). The briefer told me to call again if I was going to be late
departing because he would need to modify my flight plan to a quasi-IFR
flight plan.

My charter passenger did not show up until 11:00, so departure was pushed
back to 11:30. The briefer told me to be absolutely certain to open my
flight plan and get my squawk code before departing TIW. Unfortunately, I
could not raise Seattle FSS on the radio while on the ground at TIW, so
following the briefer's instructions I told the tower that I could not
reach
them. The tower gave me a squawk and told me to open my flight plan in the
air. I said that I had been specifically told not to do that. The tower
said
that, despite what FSS had told me, that was the procedure that I needed
to
use and the squawk would protect me. @#$!

I figured that the TFR would not be active for another ten minutes and I
would be outside of it by then, anyway, so I blasted out of there and
headed
straight for Olympia, contacting FSS and Seattle Approach for flight
following. As instructed, I monitored 121.5. During the next 40 minutes or
so I heard at least half a dozen aircraft hailed on guard: one at Port
Townsend, one at Whidbey, one at Bremerton, one over Sultan, another over
Tiger Mountain doing circles at 1500 feet, and another over Crest Air
Park.
The aircraft at Bremerton and Crest were told to land immediately and call
Seattle Approach and were warned that they would be met on the ground. The
others were told to leave the TFR immediately and given vectors. All of
the
aircraft were squawking 1200 so they were not making any attempt to hide
themselves. I did not hear responses from any of the aircraft, which did
not
surprise me. I suspect a couple of the planes might have been Canadians
who
had not been told about the TFRs.

There were three other TFRs along the way for forest fires, but I already
knew about them and had planned my route around them.

Guard was busier than ATC the whole time I was west of the Cascades. I was
shocked at the magnitude of the problem and so was my passenger, an
attorney. The system is broken, no doubt about it. My passenger wondered
how
so many pilots apparently had no inkling that the President was visiting
or
that there might be restrictions because of it. I explained that my
student
that very morning did not know the President was visiting, and that this
student is a graduate of the Air Force Academy receiving his initial pilot
training -- ostensibly not some ignorant dummy (he is sharp -- I am very
proud of him).

On the return trip I was told that the effective time of the TFR had been
extended "for at least an hour." So much for those pilots who probably got
briefings, but expected that the TFR would be closed by the time they got
there. No doubt there were dozens of aircraft caught by that little stunt.
Again, my passenger was surprised that, despite all the security, we were
allowed to fly right over McChord AFB, where we got to see a C-5 on final.
I
think the whole flight left him just shaking his head at how screwed up
things can get.

No doubt we will see a repeat performance when the Democratic candidate
comes to visit next year. If there are any pilots left who still have
their
licenses.

Unfortunately I had to decline my very nice invitation to have lunch with
the President for only $2,000. I am sure that I would have treasured my
photograph of him shaking my hand forever. Nonetheless, I had work to do,
and I feel that he has already cost me plenty as it is.

"Tom" wrote in message
...
| I offer the following solution to keeping our beloved president safe and
| keeping the GA skies friendly and sane. The pres should stay the hell in
| Washington, DC and use video conferencing. If major corporations can do
it,
| and save a bunch of travel bucks in the process, why not the pres?
|

People want that $2000 handshake.

"Tom" wrote in message ...
I offer the following solution to keeping our beloved president safe and
keeping the GA skies friendly and sane. The pres should stay the hell in
Washington, DC and use video conferencing. If major corporations can do it,
and save a bunch of travel bucks in the process, why not the pres?

We don't want him here. Send him back to Texas and eliminate the airspace
restrictions here.