Ramp checked at AVP today

Bob Gardner wrote:
Saved him a little hassle by not having to go to the trouble of making more
copies and/or making a visit to the FSDO.

Bob Gardner

And that's indeed the spirit in which I decided to include that
information. I realize some say that the inspector doesn't have the
right to see everything right then, but more often than not, I've found
that when you deal with a FAA inspector -- either for a flight test such
as the initial CFI or a ramp check -- honesty and openness is the best
policy.

Some of these guys can really make your life a living hell if they want
to, so while I won't volunteer information (note that I asked him what
he wanted to see), I'll generally be prepared to supply anything they
might reasonably ask for in the hope they will not see me as a "target"
and walk away. That's precisely what happened today.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

I keep a copy of the current W&B in the folder in the aircraft along
with the AROW documents. I don't keep all the supporting docs -- they
weigh about 5 pounds!

What is
"He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate." ?

Also, since I fly a citabria there really isn't any where to put very
much stuff. I have one of the multi-compartment bags that hangs off
the back of an automobile seat bungeed in the baggage compartment
(couldn't see spending the premium for the "aviation" bag from
Sporty's). I carry the certificates, POH, W&B chart. I also have the
W&B plugged into my GPS. Does that count if I didn't, although I do,
have a paper copy of the W&B?

Does a fresh printout from aeroplanner count as a current chart?

Dave
68 7ECA

"dave" wrote in message
...

W&B plugged into my GPS. Does that count if I didn't, although I do,
have a paper copy of the W&B?

Only the W&B form signed by a mechanic counts as the legally required W&B --
a GPS database does not suffice.

Does a fresh printout from aeroplanner count as a current chart?

There is no legal requirement for you to carry VFR charts period -- just a
requirement that you obtain all necessary information before the flight.
For IFR you would be unable to accept airways clearances or deal with lost
communication procedures without charts, so charts are required there as
part of the requirement for appropriate navigation equipment.

--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:Pvmdc.364$Va4.47@fed1read01...
He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate.


The reason for the data plate is much the same as the VIN on your car, with
the additional purpose of ensuring that someone just doesn't go building a
Cessna 172 out of spare parts. Drugs has nothing to do with it.

A friend of mine just bought a Beaver in Canada. The plane had a long
history in both the US and Canada, having been owned at various times by
different owners on both sides of the border. Anyway, when he went to
register the plane he found that it was listed as destroyed. The data plate
was an illegal duplicate. There were actually two Beavers flying around with
the same data plate for awhile. My friend wanted to use the Beaver for
charter, but now the FAA says that because of the incomplete records and
questionable past the plane can never be certified as anything but
experimental. Apparently several former owners on both sides of the border
knew all this and just turned a blind eye toward it; now they are all
pointing fingers at each other. Dehavilland is threatening to get into the
act, tracking down and suing whoever built an illegal copy of its plane. It
is a huge mess and everyone is starting to file lawsuits against everybody
else. Nevertheless, there are apparently a lot of Beavers out there that
have the same problem.

Air America ran into some of the same problem. A lot of those Pilatus
Porters came back badly shot up and Air America started cobbling together
whole new planes out of salvaged parts. They eventually went to
manufacturing planes from spare parts, including special modifications that
little resembled the original Porters. They made up new data plates and even
had multiple airplanes flying around with the same tail numbers and
duplicate data plates. Pilatus eventually sued for infringement, and won.
The illegal aircraft were ordered destroyed. It was a factor in Congress'
decision to shut Air America down (one of many, including complaints from
other airlines that the government should not be competing directly with
them, the discovery that some pilots were conducting illegal activities, the
airline's cover had been completely blown, and -- most importantly -- the
CIA's determination that they no longer needed the airline).

Air America ran into some of the same problem. A lot of those Pilatus
Porters came back badly shot up and Air America started cobbling together
whole new planes out of salvaged parts. They eventually went to
manufacturing planes from spare parts, including special modifications that
little resembled the original Porters. They made up new data plates and even
had multiple airplanes flying around with the same tail numbers and
duplicate data plates. Pilatus eventually sued for infringement, and won.
The illegal aircraft were ordered destroyed. It was a factor in Congress'
decision to shut Air America down (one of many, including complaints from
other airlines that the government should not be competing directly with
them, the discovery that some pilots were conducting illegal activities, the
airline's cover had been completely blown, and -- most importantly -- the
CIA's determination that they no longer needed the airline).

The book I read told about a factory on a barge in Taiwan that was
manufacturing whole airplanes, not just spare parts.

I had just come off of vacation, the traffic was bad, and didn't get
to the airport until showtime. Damn, four huge revisions were in my
box. Oh well I'll just do them during the layover I thought. No one
had ever checked my Jepps in my entire career. Bad wx, 15 hr duty day
and the layover in ANC was just for sleep. Next morning I'm
preflighting my side of the cockpit and I freeze when I hear the words
"FAA and ramp check." And then the unthinkable happened. The fed
looks over at me and asks; "Your Jepp's all up to date?" I looked him
right in the eye and deadpanned: "You Bet!" He replied; "Good
Answer," filled out some paperwork and he left. After I leveled off
and slapped on the A/P, I pulled out these huge orangish envelopes and
the paper started flying. The Captain looks over and exclaims: "OH!
YOU LUCKY SON OF A BITCH!"

pacplyer - out




Doug Vetter wrote in message . net...
Hi all,

Just figured I'd relate an experience I had today -- I was ramp checked
at Wilkes Barre, PA, for the second time in 15 years of flying.

After shooting a nice "high speed" ILS to a full stop landing, I pulled
up to Tech Aviation. Not 10 seconds after I hopped out and told the
line crew to top the tanks, an unassuming-looking guy walked up and
flipped out an id that logo I'd seen somewhere before... He kindly
introduced himself, "Hi, I'm name, an inspector from the FAA" and just
said that he wanted to perform a ramp check.

I said "sure" and asked him what he wanted to see. He said "eh, just
the usual stuff, certificate, medical, aircraft documentation". While I
was busy pulling my credentials out of my flight bag he asked where I
was based. As I turned around to hand him my certificates, I caught him
writing the N number and model of the airplane in a notebook.

When he saw my CFI certificate, he just remarked "oh, you're a CFI,
eh?". "Yup" I said. I don't know if it was just me, but after that he
seemed a bit more friendly and casual. Perhaps having a CFI certificate
is a lot like having a PBA card when pulled over for speeding... :-)

He then said, "Do you have the weight and balance information for the
airplane?" I said, "sure", and grabbed the "Airplane Flight Manual"
binder I developed for the airplane, which, among other things, includes
all of the recent flight records, VOT checks, weight and balance
worksheets, a copy of the POH (this airplane doesn't have an approved
flight manual), squawk listing, and even copies of airframe / powerplant
/ prop logbook pages necessary to prove everything is in license.

When the inspector saw the binder he then asked "Is this a school or a
club airplane?" I said "No, why do you ask?" He replied that he often
sees this kind of binder in a club or school airplane, but he "couldn't
remember" when he last saw a private airplane with one. "Very nice", he
concluded.

At that point, he glanced at the weight and balance data for a couple
seconds and said, "okay that's looks good" He then commented on how
nice the airplane looked. "This airplane is in great shape...pretty
obvious you take care of it". I jokingly replied "well, my partner and
I are really particular about the airplane...so much so that we're
putting my mechanic's kids through college!" He laughed, reached out
his hand to shake mine, and said "thanks for your time, and good luck
with it!". And that was about it.

The interesting twist is I had brought the binder home last weekend so I
could make some changes to it, and I walked out of the house this
morning without it. Halfway down the driveway, I realized my error. I
thought to myself "Well, I don't really *need* it, but I better grab
it". Glad I did. If I hadn't, I would not have been able to show the
weight and balance information and the day would not have ended so well.

Morals? Make sure the airplane you fly has all of the necessary
paperwork in good order EVERY time you fly, and make sure you bring your
certificate(s) and medical with you. You NEVER know when or where
you'll be ramp checked!

-Doug

BTIZ wrote:

He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see them.
He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if required.

That's assinine.


What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your medical.

I'll get in my plane and fly away.



Any thing else he asks to see, "Sorry, I'm have an appointment to go to, can
we make an appointment at my local FSDO and have the aircraft paperwork
reviewed there?" That's it, done.

Most logs are not carried, but POH with weight and balance are required. But
they need not be shown during a ramp check. Same for charts, what ever. He
can look in the airplane by looking through the window. He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate.

You lucked out.

No he didn't. That's how 99% of them go.

Newps wrote in
news:TKzdc.105262$w54.746429@attbi_s01:



BTIZ wrote:

He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see
them. He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if
required.

That's assinine.


What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your
medical.

I'll get in my plane and fly away.



Any thing else he asks to see, "Sorry, I'm have an appointment to go
to, can we make an appointment at my local FSDO and have the aircraft
paperwork reviewed there?" That's it, done.

Most logs are not carried, but POH with weight and balance are
required. But they need not be shown during a ramp check. Same for
charts, what ever. He can look in the airplane by looking through the
window. He can check the aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior
data plate.

You lucked out.

No he didn't. That's how 99% of them go.



How could you refuse to show evidence of having a required document such
as W&B? Isn't that the purpose of a ramp check?

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

Newps wrote in
news:TKzdc.105262$w54.746429@attbi_s01:



BTIZ wrote:


He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see
them. He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if
required.

That's assinine.



What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your
medical.

I'll get in my plane and fly away.



Any thing else he asks to see, "Sorry, I'm have an appointment to go
to, can we make an appointment at my local FSDO and have the aircraft
paperwork reviewed there?" That's it, done.

Most logs are not carried, but POH with weight and balance are
required. But they need not be shown during a ramp check. Same for
charts, what ever. He can look in the airplane by looking through the
window. He can check the aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior
data plate.

You lucked out.

No he didn't. That's how 99% of them go.




How could you refuse to show evidence of having a required document such
as W&B? Isn't that the purpose of a ramp check?



Didn't say you couldn't.