Cessna LSA -- Good Luck if you want one

"Dave Butler" wrote:

They got smart and decided on the Continental O-200.

Aren't Cessna and Lycoming both owned by Textron? ... but they'll use a
competing engine in their LSA?

Cessna is fed up with Lycoming after the recent crankshaft fiasco and the
IO-580 debacle. The 580 was supposed to be the new generation engine for the
206, but Lycoming couldn't fix the teething problems in time for
certification, forcing Cessma to use the older but proven 540.

TCM seems to have the edge in mfg. technology and quality control these days,
after restructuring their main plant in Mobile. Apparently to the point that
Cessna has enough confidence in TCM that it is willing to snub its own
corporate sibling.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

On 2007-06-22 05:00:39 -0700, Denny said:

On Jun 21, 4:34 pm, "Montblack" Y4_NOT!...
wrote:
("C J Campbell" wrote)

Cessna is rationing their LSA very strictly. Each dealer gets exactly one!
If you want a Cessna LSA you AND your dealer, apparently, have to go to
Oshkosh with a $10,000 deposit one week before the show and meet with a
Cessna representative. There are no hotel rooms available and Cessna will
not provide you with one, so you are on your own there. Cessna says the
LSA will be less than $100,000.

For your deposit you get on a list for delivery, perhaps in 2008.

Allowing for some late '07 production startup issues, I wouldn't expect to
see many before 2008, anyway.

Marketing 101: Creating (Hyped) Demand :-)

Paul-Mont

Hey! It's the american way...

denny

I see the LSA as the long-awaited replacement for the 152. It will be a
training airplane par excellence.

Of course, I will still prefer the 172, and so will most of my
customers. But for the young guys, the LSA can get you into the air for
a lot less money.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Jun 22, 7:50 am, "Dan Luke" wrote:
"Dave Butler" wrote:
They got smart and decided on the Continental O-200.

Aren't Cessna and Lycoming both owned by Textron? ... but they'll use a
competing engine in their LSA?

Cessna is fed up with Lycoming after the recent crankshaft fiasco and the
IO-580 debacle. The 580 was supposed to be the new generation engine for the
206, but Lycoming couldn't fix the teething problems in time for
certification, forcing Cessma to use the older but proven 540.

TCM seems to have the edge in mfg. technology and quality control these days,
after restructuring their main plant in Mobile. Apparently to the point that
Cessna has enough confidence in TCM that it is willing to snub its own
corporate sibling.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

According to my most recent issue of Aviation Consumer,
Textron gave Cessna permission to try other engines. Even the parent
company is fed up with the Lycoming crank circus.
But I don't think they got smart by choosing the O-200. We
sold our 150s a long time ago to get clear of that engine. 1800 TBO
but the cylinders always needed work halfway there. And it didn't
produce any more thrust than the C-90. The higher RPM ate up the extra
HP in drag.

Dan

I, for one, wish them all the luck in the world. We desperately need a
modern training airplane that will bring in new blood to aviation, and this
one might be it. I swear that I've been the youngest guy in my EAA chapter
and at my home field (home to 100+ airplanes) for nearly 15 years. I'm
42...

The lack of new pilots is going to bring on the end of GA, or at least the
portion of GA that flies behind a propeller.

KB

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:2007062111541237709-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
Cessna is rationing their LSA very strictly. Each dealer gets exactly one!
If you want a Cessna LSA you AND your dealer, apparently, have to go to
Oshkosh with a $10,000 deposit one week before the show and meet with a
Cessna representative. There are no hotel rooms available and Cessna will
not provide you with one, so you are on your own there. Cessna says the
LSA will be less than $100,000.

For your deposit you get on a list for delivery, perhaps in 2008.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Dave Butler wrote:
Dave Stadt wrote:

They got smart and decided on the Continental O-200.

Aren't Cessna and Lycoming both owned by Textron? ... but they'll use a
competing engine in their LSA?

Dave
Yes, and so is Macauley Props for that matter.

Of course, the question is whether Lycoming is going to make a small
enough engine.

On 2007-06-22 05:55:59 -0700, Dave Butler said:

Dave Stadt wrote:

They got smart and decided on the Continental O-200.

Aren't Cessna and Lycoming both owned by Textron? ... but they'll use a
competing engine in their LSA?

Dave

The O-200 is what is on there now, but Cessna says they have not made a
final decision as to what the engine will be. The announcement will be
made a week before Oshkosh. Originally it was a Rotax 912.

The Lycoming O-235 could also be used, but it is about 40 pounds
heavier than the Continental. The sole advantage of this engine is that
it can handle 100LL with fewer problems than the Continental. The O-235
N2C which Cessna started using in 1983 had fewer lead fouling problems.

Somehow I doubt very much that the crankshaft problems of a few
turbocharged IO-540 engines had very much to do with the decision --
that just does not seem relevant to the LSA. You will never convince
the Continental/Lycoming partisans of that, however. It is like talking
Chevy to a Ford fan, or Nikon to a Canon user. Reality and reason have
nothing to do with their views.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On 2007-06-22 17:07:39 -0700, "Kyle Boatright" said:

I, for one, wish them all the luck in the world. We desperately need a
modern training airplane that will bring in new blood to aviation, and this
one might be it. I swear that I've been the youngest guy in my EAA chapter
and at my home field (home to 100+ airplanes) for nearly 15 years. I'm
42...

The lack of new pilots is going to bring on the end of GA, or at least the
portion of GA that flies behind a propeller.

KB

True. But Cessna's factory is capable of producing 600 planes a year --
far less than the demand. And there is no sign of them planning to
build a new factory. Cessna just does not seem to have the vision
needed to lead a GA recovery. And give me a break -- the engine on this
thing was designed in 1945! Is this the great vision for the future?

Cessna likes the status quo. They sell out all their next year's
production by the end of October. No one has to do any planning or real
marketing. They just keep producing the same few hundred planes every
year. The LSA will be built at the expense of the current lineup. If
you think it is hard to get a 172 or a 182 or a 206 now, wait until
next year. The production of all those planes has been reduced to a
single line, down from five. The Mustang gets the rest of the floor
space, with a little allocated to the LSA and (maybe) the next
generation.



"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:2007062111541237709-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
Cessna is rationing their LSA very strictly. Each dealer gets exactly one!
If you want a Cessna LSA you AND your dealer, apparently, have to go to
Oshkosh with a $10,000 deposit one week before the show and meet with a
Cessna representative. There are no hotel rooms available and Cessna will
not provide you with one, so you are on your own there. Cessna says the
LSA will be less than $100,000.

For your deposit you get on a list for delivery, perhaps in 2008.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor


--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

("C J Campbell" wrote)
or Nikon to a Canon user. Reality and reason have nothing to do with their
views.


Oh great, you just had to open THAT can of worms, again! smile


Paul-Mont
http://www.brownie-camera.com/articl.../article.shtml
I got to play with our families '616' back in the 1960's and 70's.

http://www.ozcamera.com/k-box.html

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:2007062306365250073-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
On 2007-06-22 17:07:39 -0700, "Kyle Boatright"
said:

I, for one, wish them all the luck in the world. We desperately need a
modern training airplane that will bring in new blood to aviation, and
this
one might be it. I swear that I've been the youngest guy in my EAA
chapter
and at my home field (home to 100+ airplanes) for nearly 15 years. I'm
42...

The lack of new pilots is going to bring on the end of GA, or at least
the
portion of GA that flies behind a propeller.

KB

True. But Cessna's factory is capable of producing 600 planes a year --
far less than the demand. And there is no sign of them planning to build a
new factory. Cessna just does not seem to have the vision needed to lead a
GA recovery. And give me a break -- the engine on this thing was designed
in 1945! Is this the great vision for the future?

Cessna likes the status quo. They sell out all their next year's
production by the end of October. No one has to do any planning or real
marketing. They just keep producing the same few hundred planes every
year. The LSA will be built at the expense of the current lineup. If you
think it is hard to get a 172 or a 182 or a 206 now, wait until next year.
The production of all those planes has been reduced to a single line, down
from five. The Mustang gets the rest of the floor space, with a little
allocated to the LSA and (maybe) the next generation.

Let me see if I have this correct. Cessna has been in business since 1927,
has been solvent all 80 years, has built more airplanes than anyone else,
builds the worlds most popular airplane, builds the most popular corporate
jet, demand exceeds production capacity but they don't know what they are
doing. I would think most companies would live to have such problems.

On 2007-06-23 21:24:47 -0700, "Dave Stadt" said:


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:2007062306365250073-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
On 2007-06-22 17:07:39 -0700, "Kyle Boatright"
said:

I, for one, wish them all the luck in the world. We desperately need a
modern training airplane that will bring in new blood to aviation, and
this
one might be it. I swear that I've been the youngest guy in my EAA
chapter
and at my home field (home to 100+ airplanes) for nearly 15 years. I'm
42...

The lack of new pilots is going to bring on the end of GA, or at least
the
portion of GA that flies behind a propeller.

KB

True. But Cessna's factory is capable of producing 600 planes a year --
far less than the demand. And there is no sign of them planning to build a
new factory. Cessna just does not seem to have the vision needed to lead a
GA recovery. And give me a break -- the engine on this thing was designed
in 1945! Is this the great vision for the future?

Cessna likes the status quo. They sell out all their next year's
production by the end of October. No one has to do any planning or real
marketing. They just keep producing the same few hundred planes every
year. The LSA will be built at the expense of the current lineup. If you
think it is hard to get a 172 or a 182 or a 206 now, wait until next year.
The production of all those planes has been reduced to a single line, down
from five. The Mustang gets the rest of the floor space, with a little
allocated to the LSA and (maybe) the next generation.

Let me see if I have this correct. Cessna has been in business since 1927,
has been solvent all 80 years, has built more airplanes than anyone else,
builds the worlds most popular airplane, builds the most popular corporate
jet, demand exceeds production capacity but they don't know what they are
doing. I would think most companies would live to have such problems.



Oh, I never said they don't know what they are doing.

It is just that what they are doing is rather hard on both dealers and
owners. Detroit managed to skate by on corporate arrogance for decades,
too. Then those tin cans from Japan suddenly started making some real
inroads before the overly comfortable execs in Detroit ever knew what
hit them.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor