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First Human Powered Ornithopter



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 8th 10, 10:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
TonyW
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Posts: 15
Default First Human Powered Ornithopter

On 10/8/2010 7:37 AM, CaveLamb wrote:
The op gave us this link...

http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...s-1-video.html




Which is NOT the same machine as this...

http://www.ornithopter.net/index_e.html

But start he

http://www.ornithopter.net/MediaGallery/Videos/index_e.html


I went back and looked at all the pix and video and I think it's nothing
more than a flapping glider. I seriously doubt it would have ever flown
if not towed...

The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much
time and money on their hands...

Tony
  #22  
Old October 8th 10, 10:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Alan Baker
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Posts: 244
Default First Human Powered Ornithopter

In article ,
TonyW wrote:

On 10/8/2010 7:37 AM, CaveLamb wrote:
The op gave us this link...

http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...cs-1-video.htm
l




Which is NOT the same machine as this...

http://www.ornithopter.net/index_e.html

But start he

http://www.ornithopter.net/MediaGallery/Videos/index_e.html


I went back and looked at all the pix and video and I think it's nothing
more than a flapping glider. I seriously doubt it would have ever flown
if not towed...


Apparently, the FAI thinks differently.

http://www.physorg.com/news204386550.html

"But under the power and piloting of Todd Reichert, an Engineering PhD
candidate at the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies
(UTIAS), the wing-flapping device sustained both altitude and airspeed
for 19.3 seconds, and covered a distance of 145 metres at an average
speed of 25.6 kilometres per hour."


The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much
time and money on their hands...


I don't know whether the ability has any practical use or not...

....but then, I'm betting that you don't either... :-)

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg
  #23  
Old October 8th 10, 11:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
TonyW
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Posts: 15
Default First Human Powered Ornithopter

On 10/8/2010 2:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:

"But under the power and piloting of Todd Reichert, an Engineering PhD
candidate at the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies
(UTIAS), the wing-flapping device sustained both altitude and airspeed
for 19.3 seconds, and covered a distance of 145 metres at an average
speed of 25.6 kilometres per hour."


I don't think that's far or long enough to prove anything. A light
breeze of a headwind would have done the same.

The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much
time and money on their hands...


I don't know whether the ability has any practical use or not...

...but then, I'm betting that you don't either... :-)


That's one thing we can agree on.

BTW, I might have bought human powered if the had towed it with a rope
pulled by the track team but then again, I still think it's a flapping
glider...

Tony


  #24  
Old October 9th 10, 03:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Flash60601
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Posts: 4
Default First Human Powered Ornithopter


"TonyW" wrote in message
...


The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much
time and money on their hands...

Tony


I kinda think there were some folks in Dayton saying the same thing about a
hundren and ten or so years ago.

Who knows what will come of this. There are bound to be some side-benefits.
.... Eventually.

Flash

Flash


  #25  
Old October 9th 10, 04:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Alan Baker
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Posts: 244
Default First Human Powered Ornithopter

In article ,
TonyW wrote:

On 10/8/2010 2:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:

"But under the power and piloting of Todd Reichert, an Engineering PhD
candidate at the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies
(UTIAS), the wing-flapping device sustained both altitude and airspeed
for 19.3 seconds, and covered a distance of 145 metres at an average
speed of 25.6 kilometres per hour."


I don't think that's far or long enough to prove anything. A light
breeze of a headwind would have done the same.


Alas, you are not the arbiter of what is and what is not... ...flight.

:-)


The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much
time and money on their hands...


I don't know whether the ability has any practical use or not...

...but then, I'm betting that you don't either... :-)


That's one thing we can agree on.

BTW, I might have bought human powered if the had towed it with a rope
pulled by the track team but then again, I still think it's a flapping
glider...


You can think whatever you like, but if it can maintain airspeed and
altitude...

....that seems like flight to me.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg
  #26  
Old October 9th 10, 04:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Alan Baker
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Posts: 244
Default First Human Powered Ornithopter

In article ,
"Flash60601" wrote:

"TonyW" wrote in message
...


The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much
time and money on their hands...

Tony


I kinda think there were some folks in Dayton saying the same thing about a
hundren and ten or so years ago.

Who knows what will come of this. There are bound to be some side-benefits.
... Eventually.

Flash

Flash


And the Wright's first attempts gained airspeed by sliding down a track
on a hill...

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg
  #27  
Old October 9th 10, 10:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Morgans[_2_]
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Posts: 3,924
Default First Human Powered Ornithopter


"Alan Baker" wrote

You can think whatever you like, but if it can maintain airspeed and
altitude...

...that seems like flight to me.


Alan;

I gotta' ask; what dog do you have in this fight?

Why do you argue your point so strongly, to the point of putting down people
that have an opinion that differs from yours?

This seems to be very much a discussion of opinion on a subject

You opining one point of view holds no more weight than Lamb or someone else
spouting their opinion, to me. It isn't as if this is an open and shut
case. They did not make a flight with the basic definition of taking off,
maintaining flight, and returning to a place with the same elevation. Even
early definitions of powered flight with the Wright Brothers had some or all
of these basic definitions.

Yes, they seem to have flown by human power, but only with help to start
the flight.

The flapping shown is a type that I have never seen a bird use. All of the
birds have their wings hinged where they attach to their bodies and these
hinges allow the wing to pivot up and down to initiate flight, and they
usually have a joint out further on their wing that also hinges for
additional power and control... but this man powered creation has none of
those characteristics.

Seems to me that this whole thing was supposed to be imitating nature's
animals methods of flying. That, it does not do, in my opinion. Seems like
it is a way to "cheat" the imitation of flapping creature's flying
methodology.

Please note that this has been expressed as my opinion, and I did not put
anyone else "down" as I presented it, as all civil discussions should strive
to do.

Jim in NC

  #28  
Old October 9th 10, 10:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Alan Baker
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Posts: 244
Default First Human Powered Ornithopter

In article ,
"Morgans" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote

You can think whatever you like, but if it can maintain airspeed and
altitude...

...that seems like flight to me.


Alan;

I gotta' ask; what dog do you have in this fight?

Why do you argue your point so strongly, to the point of putting down people
that have an opinion that differs from yours?


What put downs have I made?

I find it annoying when people just make pronouncements on subjects they
haven't even bother to investigate.


This seems to be very much a discussion of opinion on a subject


And I gave mine in response to TonyW. I didn't put him down, I simply
pointed out a fact.


You opining one point of view holds no more weight than Lamb or someone else
spouting their opinion, to me. It isn't as if this is an open and shut
case. They did not make a flight with the basic definition of taking off,
maintaining flight, and returning to a place with the same elevation. Even
early definitions of powered flight with the Wright Brothers had some or all
of these basic definitions.


I'm doing rather more than giving my opinion. I'm presenting supporting
evidence.


Yes, they seem to have flown by human power, but only with help to start
the flight.

The flapping shown is a type that I have never seen a bird use. All of the
birds have their wings hinged where they attach to their bodies and these
hinges allow the wing to pivot up and down to initiate flight, and they
usually have a joint out further on their wing that also hinges for
additional power and control... but this man powered creation has none of
those characteristics.


What has that got to with whether or not the flight is powered by the
flapping of the wings? Are you really saying that the definition of
"flapping" hinges (if you'll pardon the pun) on the existence of joints?
Does it have to actually be a joint where two separate structures meet
and surfaces slide over one another?


Seems to me that this whole thing was supposed to be imitating nature's
animals methods of flying. That, it does not do, in my opinion. Seems like
it is a way to "cheat" the imitation of flapping creature's flying
methodology.


The thrust and lift both come from the wings.


Please note that this has been expressed as my opinion, and I did not put
anyone else "down" as I presented it, as all civil discussions should strive
to do.


I think if you see a put down in my previous post, you're way too
thin-skinned...

....or is that a put down, too?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg
 




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