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The inadvisability of charging LiFePO4 batteries below 32F/0C (akabelow freezing)



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 18th 18, 03:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Posts: 1,550
Default The inadvisability of charging LiFePO4 batteries below 32F/0C (akabelow freezing)

When researching a step up to LiFePO4, I stumbled across this tidbit at http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...w_temperatures

"Many battery users are unaware that consumer-grade lithium-ion batteries cannot be charged below 0°C (32°F). Although the pack appears to be charging normally, plating of metallic lithium can occur on the anode during a sub-freezing charge. This is permanent and cannot be removed with cycling. Batteries with lithium plating are more vulnerable to failure if exposed to vibration or other stressful conditions. Advanced chargers (Cadex) prevent charging Li-ion below freezing."

Advancements are being made to charge Li-ion below freezing temperatures. Charging is indeed possible with most lithium-ion cells but only at very low currents. According to research papers, the allowable charge rate at –30°C (–22°F) is 0.02C. At this low current, the charge time would stretch to over 50 hours, a time that is deemed impractical. There are, however, specialty Li-ions that can charge down to –10°C (14°F) at a reduced rate."

The also applies to lithium battery in your phone/computer. If you should happen to leave it in a cold place, you might want to warm it up before charging.

  #2  
Old March 18th 18, 04:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default The inadvisability of charging LiFePO4 batteries below 32F/0C(aka below freezing)

Well, what immediately comes to mind is the confusion between LiFePO4 and Lithium Ion. Those are different chemistries. I used LiFePO4 and charged them over the winter months in NM (lots of zub-freezing nights) using the chargers supplied with the batteries without any problems. After a year of removing the batteries and taking them home to charge, I had the confidence to leave them installed in the glider, in the hangar, with the chargers connected and plugged in. Again, no problems with LiFePO4. YMMV.

Dan

On Sunday, March 18, 2018 at 8:38:12 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
When researching a step up to LiFePO4, I stumbled across this tidbit at http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...w_temperatures

"Many battery users are unaware that consumer-grade lithium-ion batteries cannot be charged below 0°C (32°F). Although the pack appears to be charging normally, plating of metallic lithium can occur on the anode during a sub-freezing charge. This is permanent and cannot be removed with cycling. Batteries with lithium plating are more vulnerable to failure if exposed to vibration or other stressful conditions. Advanced chargers (Cadex) prevent charging Li-ion below freezing."

Advancements are being made to charge Li-ion below freezing temperatures. Charging is indeed possible with most lithium-ion cells but only at very low currents. According to research papers, the allowable charge rate at –30°C (–22°F) is 0.02C. At this low current, the charge time would stretch to over 50 hours, a time that is deemed impractical. There are, however, specialty Li-ions that can charge down to –10°C (14°F) at a reduced rate."

The also applies to lithium battery in your phone/computer. If you should happen to leave it in a cold place, you might want to warm it up before charging.


  #3  
Old March 18th 18, 06:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Posts: 1,550
Default The inadvisability of charging LiFePO4 batteries below 32F/0C(aka below freezing)

On Sunday, March 18, 2018 at 11:29:30 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
I used LiFePO4 and charged them over the winter months in NM (lots of zub-freezing nights) using the chargers supplied with the batteries without any problems.


Thanks for reporting your first hand experience. Maybe your charger has a temperature sensor that stops charging below 32F.

I first came across the warning in the user manual for a combination
battery_charger+battery_isolator (www.westmountainradio.com 'Epic PWRgate') This device is programmable for LiFePO4 or AGM. The device uses a temperature probe to adjust charge rate. The device does not work with other Lithium based battery chemistry.

"West Mountain Radio Operating Manual Page 10


Optional Temperature Probe


The temperature probe provides valuable data for the Epic for charging. If the temperature of the battery is too high or low on a LiFePO4 battery, the Epic will cease charging the battery. For Lead-Acid batteries, the Epic will adjust the charge voltage dependent on the battery temperature. This allows for the most optimum battery charging.


If a probe is not used, be sure to never charge a LiFePO4 below freezing temperatures for safety reasons.


http://www.westmountainradio.com/pdf...ate-manual.pdf
  #4  
Old March 18th 18, 06:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default The inadvisability of charging LiFePO4 batteries below 32F/0C(aka below freezing)

Just to clarify. I'm NOT planning to use the West Mountain Radio Epic PWRgate to charge batteries for a glider.

(I'm looking into using the Epic for a 'house battery' in a camper van.)
  #5  
Old March 18th 18, 06:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
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Default The inadvisability of charging LiFePO4 batteries below 32F/0C(aka below freezing)

I have two 12v 9AH Stark LiFePo batteries. On their website it gives –20°C to 60°C (–4°F to 140°F) as operating limits and a charge temperature range of 0°C to 45°C (32°F to 113°F).

The capacity graphs for 25, 0, -20, -40 C ( https://starkpower.com/product/12-volt-9ah-battery ) tab at the bottom shows they're good batteries down to 0 C, but perhaps a poor choice for the real cold.

This explains the voltage drop in the Lake Placid wave... I will have to put a voltmeter readout in for the next camp. I remove the batteries for charging.
  #6  
Old March 18th 18, 10:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default The inadvisability of charging LiFePO4 batteries below 32F/0C(aka below freezing)

My batteries had built-in battery management systems (BMS) which monitor
charge level, temperature (I think), and cell balance. Maybe that was
the difference.Â* BTW, this is the battery I used:
http://www.tenergy.com/31383. I bought the specified charger at the same
time and, during the first year, I would check regularly by touching
both the battery and the charger and never felt a noticeable temperature
rise.Â* The battery was also a drop-in replacement for the standard AGM
batteries used commonly in gliders.Â* It was considerably lighter.

On 3/18/2018 11:02 AM, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, March 18, 2018 at 11:29:30 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
I used LiFePO4 and charged them over the winter months in NM (lots of zub-freezing nights) using the chargers supplied with the batteries without any problems.

Thanks for reporting your first hand experience. Maybe your charger has a temperature sensor that stops charging below 32F.

I first came across the warning in the user manual for a combination
battery_charger+battery_isolator (www.westmountainradio.com 'Epic PWRgate') This device is programmable for LiFePO4 or AGM. The device uses a temperature probe to adjust charge rate. The device does not work with other Lithium based battery chemistry.

"West Mountain Radio Operating Manual Page 10
Optional Temperature Probe
The temperature probe provides valuable data for the Epic for charging. If the temperature of the battery is too high or low on a LiFePO4 battery, the Epic will cease charging the battery. For Lead-Acid batteries, the Epic will adjust the charge voltage dependent on the battery temperature. This allows for the most optimum battery charging.
If a probe is not used, be sure to never charge a LiFePO4 below freezing temperatures for safety reasons.

http://www.westmountainradio.com/pdf...ate-manual.pdf


--
Dan, 5J
  #7  
Old March 19th 18, 12:47 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Default The inadvisability of charging LiFePO4 batteries below 32F/0C(aka below freezing)

On Sunday, March 18, 2018 at 1:23:04 PM UTC-4, Dan Daly wrote:

The capacity graphs for 25, 0, -20, -40 C ( https://starkpower.com/product/12-volt-9ah-battery ) tab at the bottom shows they're good batteries down to 0 C, but perhaps a poor choice for the real cold.


They don't specify the discharge rate, and it's probably much higher than typical glider use. I've taken LFP batteries to 31,000', they worked fine.

Evan Ludeman / T8
  #8  
Old March 19th 18, 12:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 1,134
Default The inadvisability of charging LiFePO4 batteries below 32F/0C(aka below freezing)

On Sunday, March 18, 2018 at 2:12:31 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
My batteries had built-in battery management systems (BMS) which monitor
charge level, temperature (I think), and cell balance. Maybe that was
the difference.Â* BTW, this is the battery I used:
http://www.tenergy.com/31383. I bought the specified charger at the same
time and, during the first year, I would check regularly by touching
both the battery and the charger and never felt a noticeable temperature
rise.Â* The battery was also a drop-in replacement for the standard AGM
batteries used commonly in gliders.Â* It was considerably lighter.

On 3/18/2018 11:02 AM, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, March 18, 2018 at 11:29:30 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
I used LiFePO4 and charged them over the winter months in NM (lots of zub-freezing nights) using the chargers supplied with the batteries without any problems.

Thanks for reporting your first hand experience. Maybe your charger has a temperature sensor that stops charging below 32F.

I first came across the warning in the user manual for a combination
battery_charger+battery_isolator (www.westmountainradio.com 'Epic PWRgate') This device is programmable for LiFePO4 or AGM. The device uses a temperature probe to adjust charge rate. The device does not work with other Lithium based battery chemistry.

"West Mountain Radio Operating Manual Page 10
Optional Temperature Probe
The temperature probe provides valuable data for the Epic for charging.. If the temperature of the battery is too high or low on a LiFePO4 battery, the Epic will cease charging the battery. For Lead-Acid batteries, the Epic will adjust the charge voltage dependent on the battery temperature.. This allows for the most optimum battery charging.
If a probe is not used, be sure to never charge a LiFePO4 below freezing temperatures for safety reasons.

http://www.westmountainradio.com/pdf...ate-manual.pdf


--
Dan, 5J


I've seen a lot of information on the web about plating of the anode in LiPo batteries, but none on LiFePo4 which use a different alloy on the anode. On the other hand, every LiFePo4 battery I have has a charge spec of 0 deg C. Does anyone have a link to an authoritative source on this?
  #9  
Old March 19th 18, 10:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim White[_3_]
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Posts: 286
Default The inadvisability of charging LiFePO4 batteries below 32F/0C (aka below freezing)

My A123 LiFePO4 battery charging document says that operating range is -50C
to +60C. Nowhere does it say that you cannot or should not charge below
0C.

Jim

  #10  
Old March 19th 18, 06:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
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Posts: 147
Default The inadvisability of charging LiFePO4 batteries below 32F/0C(aka below freezing)

I contacted Bienno for their Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) Battery Model BLF-1209WS and they said the following;

The operating temperature is from -20 deg C to 60 deg C (14 deg F to 140 F). Then charge between 0 deg C to 40 deg C (32 F to 104 F)
 




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