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#1
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Instructor medical currency
'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges
of that certificate without a medical. The 'student' must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since the instructor cannot be.' I cut this from the ASA discussion group, I lurk there and cannot find a link to register to post. This is not an attempt to backdoor the poster, just asking this question: If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR, the instructor is not the pilot in command? And if the pilot receiving the BFR is still current, then instructor does not need a current annual? Curious about this. |
#2
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Sorry, should have but location is USA.
At 15:36 13 January 2004, Stewart Kissel wrote: 'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges of that certificate without a medical. The 'student' must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since the instructor cannot be.' I cut this from the ASA discussion group, I lurk there and cannot find a link to register to post. This is not an attempt to backdoor the poster, just asking this question: If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR, the instructor is not the pilot in command? And if the pilot receiving the BFR is still current, then instructor does not need a current annual? Curious about this. |
#3
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At 15:36 13 January 2004, Stewart Kissel wrote:
'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges of that certificate without a medical. The 'student' must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since the instructor cannot be.' First and foremost, bear in mind that this situation arises in the US only in aircraft categories which require medical certificates. In the US, it has nothing whatsoever to do with gliders. Per US regulations, your example hinges on 61.23(b)(5), which expands on the provisions of 61.23(a)(3)(iv). A second class medical (with 12-month duration) would otherwise apply to a CFI in airplanes, helicopters, et al, if he/she is being compensated. If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR, the instructor is not the pilot in command? Correct in the scenario you outline. Per 61.51(e)(3), the CFI can log PIC time and, if the BFR pilot is sole manipulator of the controls per 61.51(e)(1)(i), the BFR pilot can also log PIC time for the same flight(s). In such cases, however, only the BFR pilot is authorized to ACT as PIC. (Just guessing... this could raise some interesting liability issues in the event of an accident.) And if the pilot receiving the BFR is still current, then instructor does not need a current annual? This is correct, if by 'annual' you refer to the second class medical certificate otherwise required in order for a CFI in airplanes, rotorcraft, et al to act as PIC and be compensated. (I believe the same exception would also apply to a CFI's expired third class medical if the CFI is neither acting as PIC nor being compensated.) Judy |
#4
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The CFI does not require a medical to instruct--but there must always
be a fully qualified PIC. In your senario you are correct in that if the certificated pilot receiving traing is current the CFI does not need a medical. The BFR presents a problem since the non-medicaled CFI cannot legally act as safety pilot during hood work since he/she is the PIC at that time. One way out is to do this work in actual conditions as long as the pilot receiving training is current to act as PIC in IMC. Skip Guimond Complicated--eh!! Stewart Kissel wrote in message ... 'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges of that certificate without a medical. The 'student' must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since the instructor cannot be.' I cut this from the ASA discussion group, I lurk there and cannot find a link to register to post. This is not an attempt to backdoor the poster, just asking this question: If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR, the instructor is not the pilot in command? And if the pilot receiving the BFR is still current, then instructor does not need a current annual? Curious about this. |
#5
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Stewart Kissel wrote in message ...
'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges of that certificate without a medical. The 'student' must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since the instructor cannot be.' I cut this from the ASA discussion group, I lurk there and cannot find a link to register to post. This is not an attempt to backdoor the poster, just asking this question: If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR, the instructor is not the pilot in command? And if the pilot receiving the BFR is still current, then instructor does not need a current annual? Curious about this. That's correct. In such a case the flight review could not include simulated instrument flight since the instructor, or safety pilot, must be qualified to act as pilot in command while the pilot flying is under the hood. (For gliders no medical is required so the situation does not apply.) Andy CFII, and poster of the quoted message |
#6
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Stewart Kissel wrote in message ...
'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges of that certificate without a medical. The 'student' must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since the instructor cannot be.' I cut this from the ASA discussion group, I lurk there and cannot find a link to register to post. This is not an attempt to backdoor the poster, just asking this question: If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR, the instructor is not the pilot in command? And if the pilot receiving the BFR is still current, then instructor does not need a current annual? Curious about this. Stewart, Try sending some email to or , the ASA webmaster (Nigel Cripps) should be able to help you. I think there is some provision for non-ASA member postings, but not sure what the procedure is. Or send us $40 and become a member of ASA! Kirk |
#7
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"Skip Guimond" wrote in message om... The CFI does not require a medical to instruct--but there must always be a fully qualified PIC. In your senario you are correct in that if the certificated pilot receiving traing is current the CFI does not need a medical. The BFR presents a problem since the non-medicaled CFI cannot legally act as safety pilot during hood work since he/she is the PIC at that time. One way out is to do this work in actual conditions as long as the pilot receiving training is current to act as PIC in IMC. Skip Guimond Complicated--eh!! Flying under the hood does not make the CFI the PIC - so long as the flight is conducted in VMC and the "student" is approximately rated he remains PIC. The actual got ya is that a "safety pilot" is technically an SIC and, as a pilot he must hold medical. Of course CFIs log all their time as PIC when they are instructing. Yeah - complicated! Ivan |
#8
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Judy Ruprecht wrote in message
Per US regulations, your example hinges on 61.23(b)(5), which expands on the provisions of 61.23(a)(3)(iv). A second class medical (with 12-month duration) would otherwise apply to a CFI in airplanes, helicopters, et al, if he/she is being compensated. I won't often risk contradicting Judy on matters of regulation but..... FAA AFS600 does not share this opinion on the requirement for a class 2 medical. The class 2 is required to exercise the privileges of a commercial certificate but not to exercise the privileges of an instructor certificate. Ref: http://afs600.faa.gov/AFS640.htm and click on the FAQ 14 CFR, Part 61 link The linked word document includes, among answers to many questions you never even thought to ask, the following: QUESTION: Does a CFI even need a medical certificate to give flight training? ANSWER: Ref. § 61.23; Depends on the situation. The medical requirements for a CFI are found in § 61.23. Reference § 61.3(c)(2)(iv) and § 61.23(b)(5); No, when exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate if the person is NOT acting as pilot in command or serving as a required pilot flight crewmember. Reference § 61.3(c)(1) and § 61.23(a)(3)(iv) Yes, at least a current 3rd class medical certificate when giving instruction to a student pilot (instructor must be PIC), to anyone while that person is using a view limiting device (instructor is the safety pilot), or to a pilot that is not rated in the aircraft (e.g., while preparing a pilot for multiengine, sea-plane, type rating, etc., the instructor must be the PIC). QUESTION: Do the rules permit a flight instructor to even receive compensation for instruction when that flight instructor holds only a third class medical, or maybe does not even hold a current medical certificate at all? ANSWER: § 61.23(b)(5); Yes, in accordance with § 61.23(b)(5), a flight instructor who does not hold a medical certificate may give flight and ground training and be compensated for it. In the preamble of the parts 61 and 141 final rule that was published in the Federal Register on April 4, 1997 (62 FR 16220-16367) when the FAA revised the entire Part 61, the FAA stated the following in the Federal Register on page 16242 in response to whether a medical certificate is required for a flight instructor to give ground and flight training: " With respect to the holding of medical certificates by a flight instructor, the FAA has determined that the compensation a certificated flight instructor receives for flight instruction is not compensation for piloting the aircraft, but rather is compensation for the instruction. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and is receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is only exercising the privileges of a private pilot. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is not carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire, nor is he or she, for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an aircraft. . . . In this same regard, the FAA has determined that a certificated flight instructor on board an aircraft for the purpose of providing flight instruction, who does not act as pilot in command or function as a required flight crewmember, is not performing or exercising pilot privileges that would require him or her to possess a valid medical certificate under the FARs." In case anyone is wondering what this has to do with gliding, it started because the preliminary accident report on a recent fatal midair stated that the owner/instructor of the airplane had no medical. Andy |
#9
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In case anyone is wondering what this has to do with gliding, it started because the preliminary accident report on a recent fatal midair stated that the owner/instructor of the airplane had no medical. Andy Owner of the "airplane" or owner of the "glider", if it's the glider.. the fact that the instructor did not have a medical is moot... he does not need one. BT |
#10
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At 05:36 14 January 2004, Andy Durbin wrote:
I won't often risk contradicting Judy on matters of regulation but..... I stand corrected - a CFI who provides instruction without acting as PIC does not need any medical certificate. (It's a little obscure, tucked away in the preamble to 1997 rulemaking.) I shoulda checked the FAQ before spouting off so hastily. Judy |
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