pearl harbor, why no usn a/c in the air?

In article ,
on Sun, 11 Apr 2004 06:31:30 -0500,
John Carrier attempted to say .....

There were not enough to provide 360 degree coverage.

You might have missed my post. While 360 degree coverage would have been
the most desirable, coverage on the most likely threat axes would have
certainly been better than nothing. Insufficient search capability is
better than none at all. The aircraft were of absolutely no use sitting on
the ramp.


Nope, I saw it after I had posted.
There were some aircraft up that morning, with others preparing for patrols.
Not enough perhaps but not zero as the originator of this thread suposes.


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

Accchhh! m'wee bairns... i'll give y'warp factor eight and maybe a wee
bit more..

Hey, Mike Weeks...who do you think'll be the first person on this
thread to catch you bull****ting about pretending to be a "jet
fighter pilot" like kevin brooks caught you on the sci.military.naval
thread



MIKE WEEKS, USS LIBERTY USS LIBERTY MURDERS ISRAEL AHRON JAY CRISTOL
A. JAY CRISTOL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL GOI IDF THE LIBERTY INCIDENT
ASSAULT ON THE LIBERTY JIM ENNES JAMES ENNES JAMES A. ENNES JOE
MEADORS WAR CRIME stan engel shipfixr dn roberta hatch sheldon
lieberman little_people Ward Boston Admiral Thomas Moorer Robert
McNamara LBJ 30mm with proximity fusing 30mm cannon with
proximity fusing 30mm cannon shell with proximity fusing


kevin brooks said this:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:...g.goog le.com

"No idea, but a good point. Heck, I am still waiting for ol' Mikey to
tell me of his vast experience in dealing with "arrogant jet jockeys",
since he made such a big deal of it. Odd how he gets rather quiet when
called upon his own "qualifications"."

Bwaaaaahaaa! LOL!!! ROTFLMAO!!!

C'mon mikey... tell an old scot your qualifications, laddie!

Acccch!!! M'wee bairns… I'll give y'warp factor eight and maybe a wee
bit more…

The following message has been designed to prevent Mike Weeks from
engaging in conduct on this thread THAT HE has engaged in on the
threads where the USS Liberty survivors gather….

….and to follow Zionist Mike Weeks, who got caught by Kevin Brooks
pretending on the Google Groups pretending to be a US Naval "jet
fighter pilot"...

…just like Week's good buddy, A. Jay Cristol(Ahron Jay Cristol),
author of "The Liberty Incident" has BEEN CAUGHT pretending to be a
"jet fighter pilot" who "flew combat missions in the Far East" during
the Korean War and who served as an officer in US Naval Intelligence
when in reality…

…Mike Weeks is IN ACTUALITY … a US Naval reservist…and "no";he's not
the ...snicker...."jet fighter pilot" he got caught pretending to be ….. he is
"computer operator" AND…

"the Korean War… chortle,chortle…...heroooo",A. Jay Cristol never came within
thousands of miles of any combat… and he graduated from "flight
training school" only 90 days before the Korean War ended before he
sat his fat little rump down in the cockpit seat …not of his
...snicker… "jet fighter"… but instead a "Turkey Prop".. the US Navy's
slowest plane… and "no"… he never served in US Naval Intelligence
unless perhaps it was in the kitchen of the mess halls peeling
potatoes as punishment for bull****ting about his "war record"




Mike Weeks, who ALONG WITH HIS BUDDY, A. Jay Cristol, is actively
involved in helping the Government of Israel cover up the murder of 34
of his fellow countrymen…

In the following messages on this thread, you'll be able to determine
for yourself to just what extent, if any, Mike Weeks is a traitor to
both his country and fellow computer oper… er.. fellow servicemen in
the US Military
…

…but first to give you a snapshot of just what kind of individual it
is who ends up betraying his fellow Americans…. We'll repeat the "self
esteem" problems Mike Weeks has which cause him to pretend to be a
"jet fighter pilot" as Wing Commander of "The Data Entry Squadron"…


Hey, Mikey…. M'wee bairn… point oot t'the ladies the hyperlink Kevin
Brooks is talking aboot where he caught you bull****ting aboot being a
"jet fighter pilot"…

kevin brooks said this:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:...g.goog le.com

"No idea, but a good point. Heck, I am still waiting for ol' Mikey to
tell me of his vast experience in dealing with "arrogant jet jockeys",
since he made such a big deal of it. Odd how he gets rather quiet when
called upon his own "qualifications"."



Odd how he gets rather quiet when
called upon his own "qualifications".


Odd how he gets rather quiet when
called upon his own "qualifications".


Heck, I am still waiting for ol' Mikey to
tell me of his vast experience in dealing with "arrogant jet jockeys",
since he made such a big deal of it.
since he made such a big deal of it.
since he made such a big deal of it.



Odd how he gets rather quiet when
called upon his own "qualifications".


since he made such a big deal of it.









ojunk (Mike Weeks) wrote in message ...
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 4/10/2004 11:53 Pacific Daylight Time

Yeah, Nimitz had some nerve naming a carrier after himself.

Always have wondered how, as the then head of BuNav, he was able to do that ...

"Henry J Cobb" wrote in message
...
Andrew C. Toppan wrote:
Because all the Navy fighters were aboard the carriers which were,
famously, absent. Launching things like seaplanes, which were present
at Pearl, would be useless and suicidal.

IMHO the single biggest mistake at Pearl was not having the PBYs out for
patrols in every direction at dawn every morning.


It was an error to be sure BUT they would not have detected
the Japanese fleet since it made a high speed run into
position for the attack during the night.

The major blunders were in not having ammunition distributed
to the army AA guns, the unreadiness of the USAAF fighters
and the lack of torpedo nets.

Keith

"nice guy" wrote in message
...
poor intelligence from the dem administration


The democratic party was not responsible for intelligence gathering
as I recall, however the base commanders had been sent warnings
that clearly stated that war was imminent. Indeed the message sent
by Admiral Stark to Admiral Kimmel and General Short on
November 27 began

"This dispatch is to be considered a war warning.... Negotiations
with Japan looking toward stabilization of conditions in the Pacific
have ceased and an aggressive move by Japan is expected within
the next few days...Execute appropriate defensive deployment
preparatory to carrying out the tasks assigned in WPL 46 "

Keith

old hoodoo wrote:

I have never heard of a single navy aircraft getting airborne at Pearl Harbor. Was this because all the naval aircraft were based
at a single facility? Has there ever been an accounting of what actually happened to immobilize the navy air?

The army managed to get up an assortment of fighters for at least a token defense.


Al



Most Of the carrier air was at sea on Dec. 7th. And the PBY's and other
assorted planes would not have done much at Ford Island NAS. The AAF
had the duty for air defense. The Marines could have put up a plane
though. :-\ Of course it' s 755 am on a Sunday. Folks are thinking
about morning colors
& church, not flying with guns loaded and gas in the tanks ready to
go......

Henry J Cobb wrote:

Andrew C. Toppan wrote:

Because all the Navy fighters were aboard the carriers which were,
famously, absent. Launching things like seaplanes, which were present
at Pearl, would be useless and suicidal.


IMHO the single biggest mistake at Pearl was not having the PBYs out
for patrols in every direction at dawn every morning.

-HJC

Ahh, thats why they installed a radar!!!!!! Remember The scene in "Tora
Tora Tora?" We saw the bombers inbound on the scope. The officer on duty
thought they were the B17 flight coming from Cailfornia that morning.
Despite the wrong direction he blew it off.... The rest is history. :-(

John Carrier wrote:

It's a given the search capability wasn't there. It's also a given there
was a war warning out. I'd think a prudent commander would do the best he
could with the assets he had. Formulate some threat axes. 270 would be
more likely than 090. Application of a little common sense (your enemy
might like to avoid detection, therefor he's likely to give your forward
bases: Wake, Midway, etc) might refine that considerably. There's even a
discipline (Operations analysis, senior course at USNA) that's intended for
problems just like this: maximization of search detection with given
assets.

So maybe you wind up with a pattern that gives a PsubD of 30%. An educated
guess (threat axis either NW or SW of Pearl) might sweeten that
considerably. And you FLY! They had SOME search capability, why not use
it? Instead they played staff games ... memos flying all over the place.
Can't do a full search, so we'll ask for the assets (non-existent) and sit
on our hands till we get them.

The underlying problem was that while a Japanese attack was expected, no one
knew where it might occur. But on Oahu in early December 1941, everyone
knew, in their hearts, it couldn't happen there (or if it did, it would be
sabotage by all those Japanese living on the island).

R / John


You've been watching too many 9/11 hearnings. What If, What if, What if.
We got beat! period.

Henry J Cobb wrote:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/...365-Pearl.html
On Sunday, December 7, 1941, this ship, acting as squadron leader for
the Commander Destroyer Squadron THREE, was at the Navy Yard, Pearl
Harbor, in a restricted availability status undergoing preliminary
radar installation work.

How many radar equiped ships did the Navy have sitting at Pearl Harbor?

-HJC

Why Are we refighting Pearl Harbor????? Is this "Final Conflict?" Is the
Nimtz going to travel through a time portal so VF 84 can splash Zeros
again?????

John Carrier wrote:

There were not enough to provide 360 degree coverage.


You might have missed my post. While 360 degree coverage would have been
the most desirable, coverage on the most likely threat axes would have
certainly been better than nothing. Insufficient search capability is
better than none at all. The aircraft were of absolutely no use sitting on
the ramp.

R / John


NO bucks, no Buck Rodgers! Ahh, the Great depression is just ending in
1941. Where are you geting the money to fly all these patols in
peacetime????????? On a Sunday no less, with guys still hung over from
Saturday liberty?????

Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Henry J Cobb" wrote in message
...

Andrew C. Toppan wrote:

Because all the Navy fighters were aboard the carriers which were,
famously, absent. Launching things like seaplanes, which were present
at Pearl, would be useless and suicidal.

IMHO the single biggest mistake at Pearl was not having the PBYs out for
patrols in every direction at dawn every morning.


It was an error to be sure BUT they would not have detected
the Japanese fleet since it made a high speed run into
position for the attack during the night.

The major blunders were in not having ammunition distributed
to the army AA guns, the unreadiness of the USAAF fighters
and the lack of torpedo nets.

Keith


If I launched a attack this Morning in 2004 on Norfolk, VA how prepared
would they be? About the same..... Oceania NAS might scramble jets. Most
ships in port would not be ready to steam out. No torpedo nets, Live
ammo mostly in the magazines, lots of guys on shore. My subs could
launch cruise missles and sink most of the fleet today beter than a
flock of Vals & Kates.