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#11
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Straight deck ops
Prior to Flight Training in '53, I had been a black shoe OOD in USS Block
Island (CVE-106) and had become used to flight ops for a couple of years involving the AF-2S and AF-2W, each of which had to wiggle and crab even to taxi by the island they were so big - probably the largest carrier aircraft in use in those days on the narrowest, shortest CVE decks. As a result, bringing an SNJ aboard the CVL USS Monterrey seemed like having deck to spare, but how soon we forget...looking at the video brings it all back. |
#12
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Straight deck ops
"qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message ups.com... Greasy Rider wrote: On 8 Jan 2007 05:48:43 -0800, "qui si parla Campagnolo" postulated : I thought the F-14 was tough to bring aboard. Corsair pilots, very impressed. Gotta love paddles in shorts too, getting their tan set for liberty. It was my understanding that the Corsair was not an ideal aircraft for carrier ops because of the limited forward visibility and most were transferred over the Marines. All true but it was flown around the boat by a few really good avaitors, had to be to be able to do it. A gentleman I know who few Corsairs in the Pacific war said they considered the Japanese "a minor irritation", compared to the task of getting back aboard the carrier. Bob McKellar |
#13
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Straight deck ops
Corsairs had two probs: Pilot vis over the nose in the early aircraft and
strut bounce. Both were solved after the war (the first only to a degree) and the aircraft was no more challenging than its contemporaries. Night work was another matter and when they tried to fly the relatively underpowered jets of the late forties and early fifties in the same manner, problems arose. Most Korean war losses were operational, not combat. Personally, I found the Turkey quite nice around the back end of the boat. It took flying, but with an approach speed about 10% less than the Phantom and gobs of lift (and fuel), it was hard to hurt yourself in it. By comparison, the Phantom was supremely stable and had great response to thrust, but a few hit the ramp now and then. The F-8 would enact punitive measures for just a moment's hesitation ... highest mishap rate in the modern (angled deck, OLS) era. A comment made at one of the last "Last Crusader Balls:" "You know Lightning, we're looking at a lot of memorial services that never happened." R / John "Bob McKellar" wrote in message ... "qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message ups.com... Greasy Rider wrote: On 8 Jan 2007 05:48:43 -0800, "qui si parla Campagnolo" postulated : I thought the F-14 was tough to bring aboard. Corsair pilots, very impressed. Gotta love paddles in shorts too, getting their tan set for liberty. It was my understanding that the Corsair was not an ideal aircraft for carrier ops because of the limited forward visibility and most were transferred over the Marines. All true but it was flown around the boat by a few really good avaitors, had to be to be able to do it. A gentleman I know who few Corsairs in the Pacific war said they considered the Japanese "a minor irritation", compared to the task of getting back aboard the carrier. Bob McKellar |
#14
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Straight deck ops
In August, 1962, Forrestal joined Sixth Fleet and soon we had NATO ops
with Enterprise (this was when John McCain wiped his AD/A-1 oil cooler on trees or a power line in Spain or Portugal and fouled Enterprise's flight deck) and I am thinking, Ark Royal, Hermes, and Foch and/or Clemenceau. We had F4H-2/F-4B's (VF-74 Bedevilers) on their first combat cruise, and the F-4B's on CAP were soon jumped by French Corsairs, or vv. the CAP was vectored down low to intercept incoming Corsairs. They met in the vicinity of Forrestal, and everyone ran to the flight deck to watch the Corsairs turning way inside, avoiding the Phantom II's which skidded over the horizon. It was quite a show, the Corsairs could turn literally on a dime, the Phantom's couldn't get near them. We had a good number of Korean vet VF- and VA- senior types in Heavy Attack, they really got excited seeing the Corsairs. Back in the ready room I nearly got killed when I offered that I thought my Grandpappy flew them. It was a memorable afternoon. We had cross deck operations with Ark Royal and Hermes, some of our crewmen spent a few days on them - they were amazed to see hammocks still in use. It was also when Long Beach turned unnanounced across Forrestal's bow - even after hard right rudder and all back emergency, our maintenance crews said men started running aft on the flight deck, you could have spit down on Long Beach's stern as she passed just ahead. Joel McEachen VAH-5 qui si parla Campagnolo wrote: Greasy Rider wrote: On 8 Jan 2007 05:48:43 -0800, "qui si parla Campagnolo" postulated : I thought the F-14 was tough to bring aboard. Corsair pilots, very impressed. Gotta love paddles in shorts too, getting their tan set for liberty. It was my understanding that the Corsair was not an ideal aircraft for carrier ops because of the limited forward visibility and most were transferred over the Marines. All true but it was flown around the boat by a few really good aviators, had to be to be able to do it. |
#15
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Straight deck ops
Never flew on/off the CVE Block Island but flew AFs on/off CVE's Siboney,
Kula Gulf, and Gilbert Islands. As I remember, the AF was advertised as the largest single recip. engine A/C ever. "Boomerang" wrote in message ... Prior to Flight Training in '53, I had been a black shoe OOD in USS Block Island (CVE-106) and had become used to flight ops for a couple of years involving the AF-2S and AF-2W, each of which had to wiggle and crab even to taxi by the island they were so big - probably the largest carrier aircraft in use in those days on the narrowest, shortest CVE decks. As a result, bringing an SNJ aboard the CVL USS Monterrey seemed like having deck to spare, but how soon we forget...looking at the video brings it all back. |
#16
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Straight deck ops
Awfully tight squeeze on to one of the two centerline elevators (no
deck-edges), cable barriers, single centerline cat, 557 feet 1 inch roundown to bow, what a ride! |
#17
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Straight deck ops
It was my understanding that the Corsair was not an ideal aircraft for
carrier ops because of the limited forward visibility and most were transferred over the Marines. As a Marine I shouldn't repeat this, but just to show you how fair-minded we Marines a In _The Jolly Rogers_, Tom Blackburn, skipper of VF-17 during WW II, tells how he insisted on getting F4Us, not F6Fs, for his squadron. It became, IIRC, the highest-scoring USN squadron. On one long flight, they had to land on a carrier ro refuel. Although they hadn't done carrier ops for more than a year, every one of them got a cut on the first pass. So there were some pretty good F4U drivers in the Navy, too. ..... The Fleet Air Arm took on Corsairs as soon as it could get them and very quickly evolved a curving approach to the deck which meant that forward visibility was not a problem for landing .... The USN was still using that approach when I CQed in 1950 and, AFAIK, continued using it till the jets and the "ball" arrived. vince norris |
#18
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Straight deck ops
"vincent p. norris" wrote in message ... I was too young for WW II but CQed in an SNJ aboard USS Wright off Pensacola in 1950. Not very different from WW II conditions. Even getting off the deck was a tough proposition, with the occasional engine burp, cold cat shot, or defective bridle. Cat shots were infrequent in WW II ops. Even Doolittle's B-25s took off without benefit of a cat shot. Engines were wound up to full revs before being released for take-off. I once interviewed a guy who had been a Navy test pilot during WWII....... He flew every plane in the Navy at the time and did quite a few landings on (I think) the USS Wright on Lake Michigan. That's possible, but I think the two carriers used for CQ on Lake Michigan were converted lake steamers. One, IIRC, was a side-wheeler. Anyway, he said that landings were not as difficult as you would think, because the stall speed of the planes was low and the carrier at speed meant that you approached the deck at less than 70 miles per hour in many cases. I would agree, so far as the SNJ is oncerned. After field carrier practice, a flight of six of us flew out to the boat. We had to get six "cuts" to qualify. Every one of us, green beginners, got six cuts for six passes. So it couldn't have been too hard. Of course, we did it on a sunny day with relative calm seas, not at night in a storm, with controls shot up. vince norris As someone who has a bit of time in the F4U and the F8F, I have nothing but respect for the guys who could put the Corsair on the boat without breaking their necks. Grumman, being the kind hearted souls they are, and having some sympathy for the guys who had to see over the nose of their prop fighters, were good enough to design the cowls with a downward slant so you could at least see SOMETHING out there in front of you....like the LSO for example. But I found the Corsair as blind as a bat out front. Of course I never put one on the boat, but even handling it on the runway could be a chore. You had two tiny areas at the lower corners of the windshield where you kept the sides of the runway equalized at touchdown and roll out. I can only imagine what it must have been like putting one of those things on the boat in the middle of the night.......or even in daytime for that matter!! Go Navy!! Dudley Henriques |
#19
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Straight deck ops
John Carrier wrote: Corsairs had two probs: Pilot vis over the nose in the early aircraft and strut bounce. Both were solved after the war (the first only to a degree) and the aircraft was no more challenging than its contemporaries. Night work was another matter and when they tried to fly the relatively underpowered jets of the late forties and early fifties in the same manner, problems arose. Most Korean war losses were operational, not combat. Personally, I found the Turkey quite nice around the back end of the boat. It took flying, but with an approach speed about 10% less than the Phantom and gobs of lift (and fuel), it was hard to hurt yourself in it. By comparison, the Phantom was supremely stable and had great response to thrust, but a few hit the ramp now and then. The F-8 would enact punitive measures for just a moment's hesitation ... highest mishap rate in the modern (angled deck, OLS) era. I think my disdain for the turkey stems from how tough of a time we had keeping the things flying. It was pretty comfy around the boat, lots of fuel, even carrying 1/1/1. BUT I really liked the throttle response of the F-4, plus the very stable nose and, ya had only a pass or 2 before you were off to the tanker..so you 'developed' a good boarding rate early on..... A comment made at one of the last "Last Crusader Balls:" "You know Lightning, we're looking at a lot of memorial services that never happened." R / John "Bob McKellar" wrote in message ... "qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message ups.com... Greasy Rider wrote: On 8 Jan 2007 05:48:43 -0800, "qui si parla Campagnolo" postulated : I thought the F-14 was tough to bring aboard. Corsair pilots, very impressed. Gotta love paddles in shorts too, getting their tan set for liberty. It was my understanding that the Corsair was not an ideal aircraft for carrier ops because of the limited forward visibility and most were transferred over the Marines. All true but it was flown around the boat by a few really good avaitors, had to be to be able to do it. A gentleman I know who few Corsairs in the Pacific war said they considered the Japanese "a minor irritation", compared to the task of getting back aboard the carrier. Bob McKellar |
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