If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#61
|
|||
|
|||
Jeff wrote: but its high clouds for the most part, you dont get the clouds covering the mountains like you had this last week or so. Oh, please excuse me, as an airline pilot who operated into PHX at all times during the year for 27 years. |
#62
|
|||
|
|||
that does not say I am unconfortable flying in the clouds. It only means I was
trying to avoid the ones at the freezing levels. thats all it means. nothing more and nothing less. your trying to make something out of nothing with out actually being there. Mike Rapoport wrote: Did you write the following? "I chose VFR the first part of the flight so I could have the latitude to dodge clouds to prevent icing." "so here I am now down from my safe altitude above the clouds" "then here I am in these nasty clouds, outside temp about -2" "then he does not want me to do the ILS, he tells me to decend to 2700 ft and to be prepared for the visual. man what a crappy flight" Mike MU-2 "Jeff" wrote in message ... when did I complain about flying in the clouds? who complained about not getting the ILS in VMC who said I was not comfortable with flying in the clouds? I think you misread some things. Mike Rapoport wrote: Maybe prepared is not the right word but you make a point of saying that you:flew most of the trip VFR to aviod ice and yet you filed IFR into class B airspace and complained about flying in clouds. You accepted the descent to 7000 (amongst the clouds) while VFR. So basically you seem to be complaining about not getting your clearance right away, having to fly IFR in clouds and not getting the ILS in VMC. You also complain that he made you descend for traffic, separating traffic is the controllers primary job. If you are not comfortable flying in icing clouds then don't file IFR in class B airspace when the temp is below freezing. Most of your issues where of your own making and you should accept responsibilty for them instead of blaming someone else. It is odd that the controller said that he was busy on a quiet freq. Mike MU-2 "Jeff" wrote in message ... and how was I not prepared ? Mike Rapoport wrote: If you are not prepared to fly in "nasty clouds" then you have no business filing, requesting or flying IFR. Mike MU-2 "Jeff" wrote in message ... Just a quick note to any of you guys flying IFR into the phoenix area. I just got back from a trip to phoenix from vegas, I had filed a composit flgiht plan, VFR untill I was by phoenix then I would request my IFR if it was needed since FSS reported overcast at 2700 and few at 600. freezing level was 7000-8000, MEA was 9000 in some parts and 10,000 during other parts of route. I chose VFR the first part of the flight so I could have the latitude to dodge clouds to prevent icing. all went fine, I got handed off to phoenix approach, I was at 12,000 ft on top of the layer, no way into phoenix except through that mess either. So I asked phoenix for my IFR and he said I was cleared into class B and to decend to 7000 and he would look for my clearence. I start my decent, between some clouds and he comes back and says to turn toward carefree if I want to pick up my IFR because he was to busy. no one was talking except me. then he told me to stay clear of class B. so here I am now down from my safe altitude above the clouds, a nitwit controller, I zig zag between some clouds and call him again, he says he cant see me on radar and to turn towards carefree, so I figured I would follow the valley under some clouds, then my wife says dont turn that way, that mountain is covered by clouds, so I get back on the radio and tell the controller he got me down here, I amnow stuck and I needed my clearence or I would be in trouble. He finally said, ok, and gave it to me. man that guy ****ed me off. there was another guy trying to do the same thing as me in a cessna, right after I got my clearence, and the controller told him to stay at 2500 ft and turn towards carefree because he was "saturated" with IFR departures. Yet no one else was talking. then here I am in these nasty clouds, outside temp about -2, he gives me to decend to 6000, then right after that screams at me traffic alert decend to 5000 ...so I am in total IMC diving down to 5000 ft.. then he does not want me to do the ILS, he tells me to decend to 2700 ft and to be prepared for the visual. man what a crappy flight - and I didnt even tell you about the 1500 fpm downdraft or when my engine started losing power. that controller still has me ****ed off and its 2 days later. |
#63
|
|||
|
|||
your trying to make something out of nothing with out actually being there. I believe that's "you're" you meant to write, not "your." By the way, where's your answer about the superior service from SoCal TRACON with IFR pick-ups over the DAG/HEC area? |
#65
|
|||
|
|||
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... Steven P. McNicoll wrote: "Teacherjh" wrote in message ... On that frequency. Controllers often work many frequencies, and do things besides talk on the radio. When controllers are working many frequencies they typically broadcast on all of them simultaneously. You won't hear other aircraft, but you will hear the controller. Is this true for all positions? I think our local controllers (sleepy old ELM) sometimes work tower and ground at the same time and you don't hear the ground communications on tower and vice versa. I don't know about in a tower cab, but when positions (ie-sectors) are combined within radar facilities, the frequencies (transmitters and receivers) are routed to whatever position gets the airspace. Thus, the controller can hear on all freq's assigned to his airspace, and only has to key his own mic to transmit. His transmissions are broadcast on all frequencies he is working even though other stations can only hear the voice traffic on their discrete freq. And I'm sure there could be non VSCS exceptions in the wide open spaces of ARTCC's like ZAN, ZLC, ZDV, but surely not in a tiny little piece of airspace that is a Tracon like Phoenix. (not saying they ain't busy, just that Tracons don't usually cover much territory....) Chip, ZTL |
#66
|
|||
|
|||
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... "Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... It is not unusual for a controller to work more than one frequency. That fact that you didn't hear any other traffic, doesn't mean there wasn't other traffic. The fact that he didn't hear the controller transmit to other aircraft suggests there was no other traffic. That's what I picked up on too. Of course, with no other traffic in IMC, a traffic alert on a pair of IFR's seems a bit odd. After all, if he wasn't busy... Chip, ZTL |
#67
|
|||
|
|||
one bad thing about filing IFR here is that you have to go around all the
MOA's, ABQ told me that if I wanted to get my clearance from them I would have to turn towards drake and get out of the MOA. picking up your IFR when you need it allows you to fly through the MOA's and if they are not active, the restricted area's also. Flying IFR, I would have got peach springs, drake then phoenix. The worst of the weather was in that direction, the better weather was the other direction. this was according to FSS. But they also said skies were clear all the way to the edge of phoenix. I found out that was wrong. "Matthew S. Whiting" wrote: Mike Rapoport wrote: Fine, but while flying above the nasty icing clouds, don't ask for IFR to descend to your destination in busy class B airspace! I won't because I almost always file IFR the entire trip. Just seems easier in many respects and I don't mind talking to the friendly (mostly anyway) ATC folks. :-) Matt |
#68
|
|||
|
|||
actually there was a RJ departing, I saw him pop up over the clouds, there was
a 172 at 2000 ft wanting 5000 but was told to turn towards carefree or stay VFR, his choice and there was a archer shooting approaches into IWA, 4 navy planes departed IWA to the south 30 minutes after I landed and oh ya, the guy who made me have to dive to 5000 because the airspace was so congestested. I am not saying any controller in class B airspace is not busy, I am sure they are. but so busy to the point where they cannot handle any more arrivals, even a slow airplane like mine. I have a pretty good idea how to do this flying stuff. But as I said, I will plan my flights into phoenix differently the next time and get any clearance I need from ABQ. Mike Rapoport wrote: Yeah, I was sitting right next to him when you called. Visiting the ATC center ya know? Saw the whole thing. He wanted to finish the game of solitaire that he was playing on the radar scope and didn't want to be bothered issuing a clearance, so he made up the whole part about being busy. There really were't any airliners departing PHX that night, no military or other GA traffic either. Mike MU-2 "Jeff" wrote in message ... and how do you know it was busy ? were you sitting next to the controller - or is this just another assumption on your part? Mike Rapoport wrote: Fine, but while flying above the nasty icing clouds, don't ask for IFR to descend to your destination in busy class B airspace! Mike MU-2 "Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ... Mike Rapoport wrote: If you are not prepared to fly in "nasty clouds" then you have no business filing, requesting or flying IFR. Depends on your definition of nasty. I consider t-storm, funnel clouds, and clouds with temps below freezing to be nasty and I won't fly into them, at least not intentionally. I hardly think that means I have no business flying IFR. Not sure what the OPs definition of nasty is, but that is mine. Matt |
#69
|
|||
|
|||
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
I recall working with a former Denver Center controller nearly twenty years ago who described working a sector with multiple transceiver sites using the same frequency. He had to select which site to use depending on the location of the aircraft. I've experienced that very situation also, in Denver and ABQ airspace. It got so confusing one time, that the controller had to make a broadcast to explain it to all us VFR flight following types, that he had multiple transmitters on the same frequency, and not to worry if you don't hear every transmission. What I've always wondered, is why do they bother? Are they just trying to save a little electricity? It seems like this switching of transmitters on and off is just extra workload for them with no particular advantage. No one else is using the frequency in that area except him. What am I missing? Mike |
#70
|
|||
|
|||
In article et,
"Mike Rapoport" wrote: If you are not prepared to fly in "nasty clouds" then you have no business filing, requesting or flying IFR. That's an interesting perspective since most of the airliners in the local class B seem to want to stay out of the clouds, particularly in the summer time, to avoid the bumps from convective activity... and I'm talking about fairly mundane cumulus clouds. Doesn't seem to be a problem for them, and it's never been a problem for me, but I don't ask for pop-up IFR clearances either. The bottom line is that the needs and capabilities of every aircraft may be different, but just because someone doesn't have a known-ice aircraft with radar and turbines on the wings doesn't mean that he shouldn't file or fly IFR. It simply means that he needs to communicate his needs and reasons for his requests to controllers who may be used to dealing with a different type of aircraft. JKG |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
"cleared to ... when direct ..." | John Harper | Instrument Flight Rules | 21 | February 11th 04 04:00 PM |
Practical IFR Question (for centre controllers) | David Megginson | Instrument Flight Rules | 10 | December 4th 03 11:26 PM |
AOPA and ATC Privatization | Chip Jones | Instrument Flight Rules | 139 | November 12th 03 08:26 PM |
Follow up Alright, All You Dashing, Swaggering Bush Pilots | wmbjk | Home Built | 135 | September 8th 03 06:09 AM |
Riddle me this, pilots | Chip Jones | Instrument Flight Rules | 137 | August 30th 03 04:02 AM |