AH-64 vs P-51

Well at least one AN-2 has been shot down from a UH-1

Well, with a strong headwind, you can out run an AN-2..........on foot!!
VL

Sit over the top of the helo and wait for the right time. Fire down at
him from above. Know your dive recovery limits. High speed isn't
needed unless his air cover is around. 50 cal rain a'coming.
FWIW here's a funy air anti-helo story. I was in the 307th TFS at
Homestead in 1969 when an Army colonel dropped in from Fort Hood. He
wanted some F4s to come out and make unannounced (!) gun passes on
their Hueys. We thought about this for oh maybe ten seconds and then
cautiously asked him if he'd discussed it with the Huey pilots. No, he
hadn't. We said gently that in combat we'd be doing at least 450 knots
in the gun passes and pulling up sharply over them to avoid getting in
their sights (no matter how rudimentary). We also commented that heavy
jets like the F4 churned up a very strong vortex during such a pull-up
and we wondered if that would give their rotor blades any problems. He
left and we never heard any more about that program . . .
Walt BJ

In article ,
(WaltBJ) writes:
Sit over the top of the helo and wait for the right time. Fire down at
him from above. Know your dive recovery limits. High speed isn't
needed unless his air cover is around. 50 cal rain a'coming.
FWIW here's a funy air anti-helo story. I was in the 307th TFS at
Homestead in 1969 when an Army colonel dropped in from Fort Hood. He
wanted some F4s to come out and make unannounced (!) gun passes on
their Hueys. We thought about this for oh maybe ten seconds and then
cautiously asked him if he'd discussed it with the Huey pilots. No, he
hadn't. We said gently that in combat we'd be doing at least 450 knots
in the gun passes and pulling up sharply over them to avoid getting in
their sights (no matter how rudimentary). We also commented that heavy
jets like the F4 churned up a very strong vortex during such a pull-up
and we wondered if that would give their rotor blades any problems. He
left and we never heard any more about that program . . .

Why argue - drop a bomb on it. (Seriously). A helicopter can be a
difficult target for a relativeily accurate system like a gun, but it
sure as hell isn't going to outrun a 2-3,000' radius of lethal (to a
helicopter) fragments. It worked well enough in '91.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

Why argue - drop a bomb on it. (Seriously). A helicopter can be a
difficult target for a relativeily accurate system like a gun, but it
sure as hell isn't going to outrun a 2-3,000' radius of lethal (to a
helicopter) fragments. It worked well enough in '91.

That actually sounds like a really good idea if you've got the
ordinance.

Tony

Tony Volk wrote:

Why argue - drop a bomb on it. (Seriously). A helicopter can be a
difficult target for a relativeily accurate system like a gun, but it
sure as hell isn't going to outrun a 2-3,000' radius of lethal (to a
helicopter) fragments. It worked well enough in '91.


That actually sounds like a really good idea if you've got the
ordinance.

Tony


Depends of course on the helo staying (reasonably) still.

John

Depends of course on the helo staying (reasonably) still.

Or even just not maneuvering very much (e.g., could be traveling in a
straight line). Attack from the sun to limit visual warning, and the
helicopter would only have a few seconds (at best) to evade the bomb. Any
way you look at it, I'd hate to be in a helicopter vs. a fixed wing,
high-performance jet.

Tony

John Mullen wrote in message ...
Tony Volk wrote:

Why argue - drop a bomb on it. (Seriously). A helicopter can be a
difficult target for a relativeily accurate system like a gun, but it
sure as hell isn't going to outrun a 2-3,000' radius of lethal (to a
helicopter) fragments. It worked well enough in '91.


That actually sounds like a really good idea if you've got the
ordinance.

Tony


Depends of course on the helo staying (reasonably) still.

Actually, it doesn't matter what the helicopter is doing. That's the
beauty of teh technique. Even if your helicopter is tootling directly
away at 200 ft/sec (60 m/sec), or 130 mph (pretty good for a NOE
helicopter), i'll take you 15 horrible long seconds to clear the danger
zone. A helicopter can change the direction that it is pointed very
quickly, but it can't change its position very fast. If you're jinking
a helicopter, just stirring the stick around won't do anything but make
you wobble a bit around the flight path. A gun firing solution might be
a bit hard to come by, but the bomb fragments don't care how clever you
are.

The miss distance doesn't have to be very large, either. The one time
that it was tried for real, (1991 Gulf War), an F-15E nailed an airborne
Iraqi helicopter with a Laser Guided Bomb. (The helicopter was on the
ground, but took off as the Beagle approached. The F-15's WSO kept
tracking the helicopter, and the bomb faithfully followed the spot to
the helicopter's rotor mast.

--
Pete Stickney

WaltBJ wrote:

Sit over the top of the helo and wait for the right time. Fire down
at him from above. Know your dive recovery limits. High speed isn't
needed
unless his air cover is around. 50 cal rain a'coming. FWIW here's
a funy air anti-helo story. I was in the 307th TFS at Homestead in
1969 when an Army colonel dropped in from Fort Hood. He wanted some
F4s to come out and make unannounced (!) gun passes on their
Hueys. We thought about this for oh maybe ten seconds and then cautiously
asked him if he'd discussed it with the Huey pilots. No, he hadn't.
We said gently that in combat we'd be doing at least 450 knots in
the gun passes and pulling up sharply over them to avoid getting in their
sights (no matter how rudimentary). We also commented that heavy jets
like the F4 churned up a very strong vortex during such a pull-up and
we wondered if that would give their rotor blades any problems. He left
and we never heard any more about that program . . . Walt BJ

Most of the folks that I work with are retired Army aviators (Huey
gunship, Cobra, Apache, and Longbow). All but one with combat
experience. My boss (Col., USA (ret.)) has lots of stories of
non-aviator staff officers that had screwball ideas of what an attack
helicopter is really for. The disastrous Apache raid during GF II is
proof that the Army still has an abundance of planners with no concept
of how to use TACAIR on the battlefield.

Vygg