Procedure Turn

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

Ok, then I'm asking you: "Is the turn around the hold legally required
here?"


I don't think so. A procedure turn is "the maneuver prescribed when it is
necessary to reverse direction to establish an aircraft on the
intermediate
approach segment or final approach course." Obviously it isn't necessary
to
reverse direction in this case. Part 91 states when a procedure turn may
not be flown, it has not a word on when a procedure turn must be flown.



I see what you mean, and that makes sense to me. But the sentence following
that one in AIM 5-4-8a. is "The procedure turn or hold in lieu of procedure
turn is a required maneuver." What do you suppose is meant by that? Or do
you invoke "the AIM is not regulatory" to dispatch it?

Thanks,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

I'm aware of the normal T type GPS approaches, having flown off
a Garmin 300XL for the last few years. But there's plenty of these
around too. With a normal 1/2 mile or so lead I use on those turns
(same as on a T type) you can come out right on top of the
final approach segment.

OW


"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:24:43 GMT, "Otis Winslow"
wrote:


wrote in message ...
Apparently, the gentlemen is of limited clues. ;-) GPS approaches that
have
course reversals have them at the intermediate fix, not the FAF.


Limited clues? I don't think so. You need to get out around the country
more. I've
seen lots of those. Here's one that comes to mind where I made a fuel
stop
heading
up to Colorado a while back. Seems to me that the FAF, IAF, and course
reversal are all at the same waypoint on this one .. as I've seen on lots
of
them.
And it sure isn't an overlay.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/publis...s/06555G35.PDF



That's an interesting approach in the context of our discussion. It's not
really the TAA type GPS approach, but something else.

For standard TAA's, where there is a five mile intermediate segment prior
to the final segment, a turn at the IF is allowed up to, I think, 102°.

In the approach you reference, arriving at COTTU on a 90° intercept at
3000' and then turning towards the airport, at slow speeds you would
probably be safe. But I'd be concerned about the narrower surveyed
protected area on the final segment that might bite me during the turn.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

I see what you mean, and that makes sense to me. But the
sentence following that one in AIM 5-4-8a. is "The procedure
turn or hold in lieu of procedure turn is a required maneuver."
What do you suppose is meant by that? Or do you invoke
"the AIM is not regulatory" to dispatch it?


The AIM states in the preface, "This publication, while not regulatory,
provides information which reflects examples of operating techniques and
procedures which may be requirements in other federal publications or
regulations." Who am I to argue with the AIM?

Otis Winslow wrote:

I'm aware of the normal T type GPS approaches, having flown off
a Garmin 300XL for the last few years. But there's plenty of these
around too. With a normal 1/2 mile or so lead I use on those turns
(same as on a T type) you can come out right on top of the
final approach segment.

Actually, the intermediate segment.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:51:11 -0700, wrote:



Otis Winslow wrote:

I'm aware of the normal T type GPS approaches, having flown off
a Garmin 300XL for the last few years. But there's plenty of these
around too. With a normal 1/2 mile or so lead I use on those turns
(same as on a T type) you can come out right on top of the
final approach segment.

Actually, the intermediate segment.

For a 'T' type approach, but for the approach at CEK that he cited, it
seems to me he is turning onto the final segment.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:28:56 GMT, "Otis Winslow"
wrote:

I'm aware of the normal T type GPS approaches, having flown off
a Garmin 300XL for the last few years. But there's plenty of these
around too. With a normal 1/2 mile or so lead I use on those turns
(same as on a T type) you can come out right on top of the
final approach segment.

As I said, if you have a slow a/c, and everything works perfectly, you can
get away with shortcuts to TERPS, and require less tolerances than they
call for. But I would not do that.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)