Mild Aerobatics

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Rb1Le.20082$084.9963@attbi_s22...
Amateurs!!! We had that AND rosary in that afternoon....PLUS
benedictions!!!
:-)))

Oooo. Was that a chill I just felt? I remember those, with dread.

And, amazingly, the Church still wonders aloud why their membership
plummeted in the 1970s! D'oh!

;-)

It was a great education though. I remember I was inspired toward flying
fast airplanes at the tender age of 15 one morning when Sister Pasklinina
taught me about the speed of sound.
She explained that it was the air separating on that quickly descending
hickory pointing stick she using to turn my open right hand into totally
useless flesh.
:-)
D

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:12:59 -0500, "B. Jensen"
wrote:

Jay,

Sounds like it's time for you to get your Commercial ticket. Not that
you need it for the type of flying you do, but at least you can learn
and become proficient with some new maneuvers like Chandelles, Lazy
eights, turns on pylons, accuracy landings, etc without hurting Atlas.
Also, you are certainly receptive to learning more about flying, so why
not study for the Commercial written in your spare time and expand you
"database"? I think you'll find it very enjoyable since you can do it
on your own time. You'll find the commercial ticket is fun and
"relative" easy to achive. And heck, your insurance rates might come
down as a result too??

Bryan, can't you learn those maneuvers without getting a commercial
ticket?

Corky Scott

In article ,
"Happy Dog" wrote:



Really unlikely. When you're on the ground, the wings aren't holding the
plane up. The landing gear is.

Last time I looked the main gear on Jay's airplane was attached to the
wing. The spar is still taking the load.


Unless you're really competent with acro, even something as innocent as a
chandelle or lazy 8, spiral or spin can quickly get out of hand and stress
the airframe.

You're kidding right?! I've done acro, but I certainly don't consider
myself "competent" (which frankly, is why I've never rolled the Cessna's
I fly). I am quite capable of doing lazy 8s or chandelles without
"getting out of hand".

IMO a private pilot should be able to do a lazy 8 or chandelle without
losing control of the airplane. They are simply climbing and/or
descending turns done at moderate bank angles. The chandelle is the
only one that "pushes" at all since you get very close to stall at the
finish.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

wrote:
Bryan, can't you learn those maneuvers without getting a commercial
ticket?


Of course you can but why bother? The maneuvers are and of themselves are
pretty useless. You might as well get credit for learning them.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message

Everyone is saying I didn't put too much negative G on the airframe --
which is nice to hear -- but it was a pretty abrupt maneuver.

Gs are Gs. I know what you're saying -- an abrupt application *could* yield
some pretty high instantaneous G force, but keep it simple. Did anything
come off the floor and slam right back down during your avoidance maneuver?
Did you feel a quick but unmistakable tug on your belt?

Happy Dog wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in

I could be wrong, but doesn't it matter a LOT as to how quickly the
maneuver
is stopped and started? Like, an up down done over 9 seconds is almost
no
strain, and one done in 3 seconds is *considerably* more strain on the
plane?

Yeah, I'm wondering that, too.

Everyone is saying I didn't put too much negative G on the airframe --
which is nice to hear -- but it was a pretty abrupt maneuver. I know
when I do "up/downs" with the kids, if I do it long and slow, it's a lot
easier on everyone than if I yank and push.

Hopefully pushing hard didn't stress things too much...


Really unlikely. When you're on the ground, the wings aren't holding the
plane up. The landing gear is. You, probably, didn't even hit -.1G. -1 is
everything plastered against the roof. You probably didn't put much more
stress on it than a take-off at gross.

Did you forget where Piper connects their landing gear?

Matt

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:yXUKe.261230$xm3.216131@attbi_s21...
snip
Everyone is saying I didn't put too much negative G on the airframe --
which is nice to hear -- but it was a pretty abrupt maneuver. I know
when I do "up/downs" with the kids, if I do it long and slow, it's a lot
easier on everyone than if I yank and push.

Hopefully pushing hard didn't stress things too much...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


If the view out the front didn't look like the picture I just posted on
alt.binaries.pictures.avation you are probably allright (View out the
windscreen).

If you went really negative you would have been banging your noggin on the
overhead.

--
Geoff
the sea hawk at wow way d0t com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
Spell checking is left as an excercise for the reader.

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
Really unlikely. When you're on the ground, the wings aren't holding the
plane up. The landing gear is. You, probably, didn't even hit -.1G. -1
is everything plastered against the roof. You probably didn't put much
more stress on it than a take-off at gross.

Did you forget where Piper connects their landing gear?

Didn't know it was a Piper. Didn't check either.

* Idiot. (Self directed with smack upside the snout.) *

moo

"Dale" wrote in message
Really unlikely. When you're on the ground, the wings aren't holding the
plane up. The landing gear is.

Last time I looked the main gear on Jay's airplane was attached to the
wing. The spar is still taking the load.

Oops! Thought he drove a 172...


Unless you're really competent with acro, even something as innocent as a
chandelle or lazy 8, spiral or spin can quickly get out of hand and
stress
the airframe.

You're kidding right?! I've done acro, but I certainly don't consider
myself "competent" (which frankly, is why I've never rolled the Cessna's
I fly). I am quite capable of doing lazy 8s or chandelles without
"getting out of hand".

IMO a private pilot should be able to do a lazy 8 or chandelle without
losing control of the airplane. They are simply climbing and/or
descending turns done at moderate bank angles. The chandelle is the
only one that "pushes" at all since you get very close to stall at the
finish.

Should be? Sure. Is? Nope. I've taken lots of people through this stuff
and most, pilots and even some non-pilots are fine with them. But a few,
who may have only done them many years before when getting their ticket,
hesitate on the recovery. The airspeed winds up and they overreact on the
pullout. If you don't believe this happens, get the proper qualifications
and try it on a bunch of people. Preferably in something designed to handle
it. Or ask an acro instructor. The one who taught me worked for Bombardier
and used my plane to teach an emergency maneuvers course to Bombardier
pilots. He said one of the first thing he did was roll inverted to a +1G
dive and ask them to recover. He said many tried to pull out of it. That,
in anything not designed for acro can be fatal. You may have better
instincts or training or both. But many, many people don't. Again, the
post by DH says it as well as I've ever read.

moo

Happy Dog wrote:

Last time I looked the main gear on Jay's airplane was attached to the
wing. The spar is still taking the load.

Oops! Thought he drove a 172...

Insult, injury... Ouch!!! Ooooh thats just mean, man...