Starting new C172s

In article ,
Newps wrote:

Peter R. wrote:
Newps wrote:


I have a 64 S35, first year with the IO520 and the first year as a six
seater so as a four seater you have a lot of cargo space.


Again, congratulations. Sounds like a beauty. Perhaps we will run across
each other at some future ABS event.

Possibly, although you'll be more likely to find me on a backwoods strip
somewhere trying to find out where the trout are hiding. I have heard
stories of Bo pilots being, ah, a little stuffy. If I run in to that
you'd never see me at a Bo event again. I don't suffer morons.


We have been trying to get more of them to join our formation flights,
but have very few takers. I must admit, however, that the later models
handle like trucks! Somewhere along the line, Beech decided that
Bonanzas were too light on the controls and stiffened them up. Also, the
vernier throttle and its positioning make it hard to fly formation.

Alot of bonanza parts are expensive. However, accessory parts are what
the market offers since they aren't aircraft specific ie brushes.
Those don't need to be bought from Beechcraft.
If you buy them from Beech, they will be marked up 300%.

Most of the Beechcraft parts are very well built and don't need changing
very often.
Once the aircraft is up to snuff, the maintenance isn't much different
than other aircraft of the same type.

Nothing flys like a Bonanza!!!



Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:41:41 -0600, Newps wrote
in ::


I have a 64 S35, first year with the IO520 and the first year as a six
seater so as a four seater you have a lot of cargo space. One of the
first things you notice is these things are really put together.
Cessnas and Pipers are flimsy beer cans compared to a Bonanza, of course
thats also why the empty weight is 230 pounds more.


You probably haven't had your Bonanza long enough to answer this
question, but how do you find the cost of maintenance? I have heard
that Raytheon charges exorbitant prices for parts.

Back in the late 90s I made a short trip from John Wayne Airport to
Van Nuys to pick up a passenger. The owner of the FBO from whom I
rented the aircraft for the flight asked if I might pick up a set of
generator brushes for him. I intended to pick up my passenger at the
Raytheon ramp on KVNY, so I agreed to bring the parts back with me.
The cost for two generator brushes (for clarity, these are about the
size of a half stick of blackboard chalk and made of carbon). The
bill was about $200.00! I was shocked. When I worked at the
electrical wholesale house in the 70s, we sold similar brushes for
$0.50 each.

So what has been the experience of other Bonanza owners with regard to
maintenance costs?

[crossposted to rec.aviation.owning]

Larry Dighera wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:41:41 -0600, Newps wrote
in ::


I have a 64 S35, first year with the IO520 and the first year as a six
seater so as a four seater you have a lot of cargo space. One of the
first things you notice is these things are really put together.
Cessnas and Pipers are flimsy beer cans compared to a Bonanza, of course
thats also why the empty weight is 230 pounds more.


You probably haven't had your Bonanza long enough to answer this
question, but how do you find the cost of maintenance? I have heard
that Raytheon charges exorbitant prices for parts.

I've heard that too, we'll see. My IA has the same model Bo I do so I
am lucky there. No paying for learning about Bonanza's.



Back in the late 90s I made a short trip from John Wayne Airport to
Van Nuys to pick up a passenger. The owner of the FBO from whom I
rented the aircraft for the flight asked if I might pick up a set of
generator brushes for him. I intended to pick up my passenger at the
Raytheon ramp on KVNY, so I agreed to bring the parts back with me.
The cost for two generator brushes (for clarity, these are about the
size of a half stick of blackboard chalk and made of carbon). The
bill was about $200.00! I was shocked. When I worked at the
electrical wholesale house in the 70s, we sold similar brushes for
$0.50 each.

My mechanic says I have an alternator that costs a lot to overhaul if
you do it the right(FAA) way. We will be taking it to the automotive
shop down the street when the time comes. Right now I have one dimmer
switch that is belly up. Mechanic says $350 from Beech but he will
check his other sources and get a cheaper one. Cessna was the same,
very expensive for a dimmer but we found a different source.

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article ,
Newps wrote:


Peter R. wrote:

Newps wrote:



I have a 64 S35, first year with the IO520 and the first year as a six
seater so as a four seater you have a lot of cargo space.


Again, congratulations. Sounds like a beauty. Perhaps we will run across
each other at some future ABS event.

Possibly, although you'll be more likely to find me on a backwoods strip
somewhere trying to find out where the trout are hiding. I have heard
stories of Bo pilots being, ah, a little stuffy. If I run in to that
you'd never see me at a Bo event again. I don't suffer morons.



We have been trying to get more of them to join our formation flights,
but have very few takers. I must admit, however, that the later models
handle like trucks! Somewhere along the line, Beech decided that
Bonanzas were too light on the controls and stiffened them up. Also, the
vernier throttle and its positioning make it hard to fly formation.

My Bo doesn't handle much different than my 182, although I admit I'm
not very picky. Everybody but me who has put VG's on their plane raves
about the handling differences, me, I couldn't tell a thing other than
the stall speed had been reduced a few knots. Personally I think most
of them are full of ****. Watching them fly there's no way they can
tell anything.

We have been trying to get more of them to join our formation flights,
but have very few takers. I must admit, however, that the later models
handle like trucks! Somewhere along the line, Beech decided that
Bonanzas were too light on the controls and stiffened them up. Also, the
vernier throttle and its positioning make it hard to fly formation.

That would probably be due to the rash of accidents where the tail got
pulled off prior to the mandated leading edge cuffs on the V-tails.

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 03:41:00 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 00:30:25 GMT, OP wrote:

snip

I had read of this method for starting a hot fuel injected engine,
but the article I read didn't say anything about which fuel injected
engines had the return to the tank line. Does this apply to "all"
fuel injected engines of the Lycoming/Continental types, flat
four/sixes in all aircraft? I guess my question is... is the vapor
return line common to all aircraft manufacturers?

The method described (WOT, ICO, boost pump on) is used to clear a TCM
classic fuel injection system, which will have a return line. If the
"aircraft manufacturer" is using an engine/s with this type of fuel
injection, it will have a return line/s. It can be important on some
aircraft to know how many "return lines" are present, and which tank/s
they are connected to.

A RSA/Bendix system will not have a return line. On the airframes that
I am allegedly familiar with, running the boost pump in this manner
will not accomplish much. But if it makes you (collective you) feel
better, go for it.

The typical RSA/Bendix "hot start" issue is not vaporised fuel in the
pump/lines causing a too-lean start, it is the fuel "boiling" out of
the hard injector lines into the engine induction system along with an
over-zealous application of boost pump-throttle-mixture to over-prime
an engine that often doesn't need priming at all.

I've never personally seen a Lycoming with a TCM classic system, but
there are a few TCM's flying around with RSA/Bendix systems.

TC

Thanks for the information.

Ron

On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:00:11 -0400, "Peter R."
wrote:

Newps wrote:

You wouldn't believe the number of numbnuts out there who
fly final at 100 mph or more. Right now I can comfortably fly final at
75 MPH although the book speed for my weight is 68 MPH so I have some
more practice to do.

That sounds a bit low although some of the older and lighter V-tails
would be down in that range.

I have a Deb that was built in 59 (Sept 11th no less). Final is 80
MPH minus one MPH for each 100# under gross. That brings book speed
for me alone to between 76 and 78 depending on fuel.

I have 1000# useful load. 70 gallons of fuel drops that to 430. Add my
170 and it's down to 250 under gross or 78 MPH. 3 hours of flying @
14 GPH drops that by another 250# for 500# under gross or 75 MPH.

I do believe it, as I bought my Bonanza from one such pilot. During my
transition to the Bonanza and just after I bought the aircraft, he and I
took a flight to a nearby airport. Just after my landing, he tersely

I think you will find when flown by the numbers they require less
landing distance than a 172.

It you get a chance to take the ASF/ABS pilot proficiency training
they make you calculate each take off and landing speed. Then they
expect you to be able to fly it at that +/- only a couple MPH.

lectured me because the stall warning horn went off just before the wheels
touched down. Apparently he gets very nervous with approach speeds lower
than about 95 kts.

Mine goes off sooner than that and you can feel it settle in a stall
as the wheels touch.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

What model did you purchase again?
Roger

Beech isn't the only one that's exorbitant. I got a recent quote from
Piper for $200 each for a pair of gas caps for my Arrow.

I've always wanted a Bo but am getting concerned now about structural
issues - an AD for tail strengthening on older models, and more
recently an issue about cracks in the wing spar web.

Roger wrote:

On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:00:11 -0400, "Peter R."
wrote:


Newps wrote:


You wouldn't believe the number of numbnuts out there who
fly final at 100 mph or more. Right now I can comfortably fly final at
75 MPH although the book speed for my weight is 68 MPH so I have some
more practice to do.


That sounds a bit low although some of the older and lighter V-tails
would be down in that range.

That's the book speed. With my 182 I could fly below the book speed
because I had VG's.



I have a Deb that was built in 59 (Sept 11th no less). Final is 80
MPH minus one MPH for each 100# under gross. That brings book speed
for me alone to between 76 and 78 depending on fuel.

Book also says 1 MPH per 100# below gross. At 2400 book says my stall
is 53 MPH.



I have 1000# useful load. 70 gallons of fuel drops that to 430. Add my
170 and it's down to 250 under gross or 78 MPH. 3 hours of flying @
14 GPH drops that by another 250# for 500# under gross or 75 MPH.

My useful is right at 1300 pounds.



What model did you purchase again?

S35.

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:27:29 -0600, Newps wrote
in ::

My mechanic says I have an alternator that costs a lot to overhaul if
you do it the right(FAA) way. We will be taking it to the automotive
shop down the street when the time comes.

Have you any idea with the differences in overhaul procedures are?

Right now I have one dimmer switch that is belly up. Mechanic says
$350 from Beech but he will check his other sources and get a cheaper
one.

A dimmer is nothing more than a wire-wound rheostat right? If it
hasn't been charred beyond serviceability, and the fault is a result
of an open winding, it might be an easy matter to procure the proper
gage Nichrome wire, and rewind it. Materials: $1.00

Cessna was the same, very expensive for a dimmer but we found
a different source.

Well, you can't blame the manufacturers for trying to make a profit,
but attempted price gouging because they officially have a monopoly on
an approved part that is comparable to those priced at 1/10th won't
endear them to their customers.