Abject surrender

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

Saddam believed he had WMD.

I think so...the poor schmucks who worked for him were so
****-scared of him that they fed him whatever he wanted to
hear...while the ones who had earlier tried to tell him the truth
likely died on the spot with the words half out of their unlucky
mouths...
--

-Gord.

"Steve Hix" wrote in message
...
A somewhat different issue, and you should know better.

There is a little difference between probable local battlefield
response, and activity outside the national boundary.

Not a different issue at all. Tony Blair certainly wasn't made aware of the
difference, as he has stated, and neither were his voting public. We were
told he was an imminent threat, that as part of that threat he could deliver
WMDs within 45 minutes. If they were only usable within his national
boundary, then what was the threat? The government either didn't tell the
public the truth about the 45 mins through incompetence, or an intent to
mislead.

Si

"Steve Hix" wrote in message
...
Too bad for Saddam and at least some of Iraq's military leadership...
*they* thought that WMDs were there and available.

Whether that's true or not is unclear. It just as possible that Saddam knew
he had no capability and yet allowed everyone to believe he may have as a
regional deterrent because he didn't believe another confrontation with an
allied coalition was a possibility unless he provoked it.

Si

"Matthew G. Saroff" wrote in message
...
I recall hearing of such a threat in France, though not
from ETA, in about that time period.

Yep, could have been France, thinking about it. If that's the case it'd be
interesting to know whether the intelligence that resulted in the French
scare was related to the activities in Spain. Or maybe even France was the
original intended target, which was switched when they became aware of the
threat.

Si

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:11:29 -0000, "Simon Robbins"
wrote:

We were
told he was an imminent threat, that as part of that threat he could deliver
WMDs within 45 minutes.

Simon, you are conflating two ideas here. I remember no such
statement, at least not by Bush or Powell, to the effect that Saddam
could attack us with WMDs in 45 minutes.

(Well, of course he could have attacked Israel, as he did in 1991.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Grantland" wrote in message
...
"The CO" wrote:

Idiot.
Grantland

Considering the source, I'll consider that a compliment.

BTW, seen any gorilla/human hybrids lately?
If you were any fuller of it, you'd sink to the centre of the Earth.

The CO

Whether that's true or not is unclear. It just as possible that Saddam knew
he had no capability and yet allowed everyone to believe he may have as a
regional deterrent because he didn't believe another confrontation with an
allied coalition was a possibility unless he provoked it.

Well, it was pretty obvious to me in October 2002 that we were going
to war, so Saddam ought to have been able to figure it out. (I had a
Bush sticker on my bumper, and it was not easy-off. So I covered it up
with a local Congressional-race sticker, because I was annoyed about
the war thing. So I can date this as several weeks before the off-year
election.)

Saddam had at least five months to convince people that he had no such
weapons. That he made no such effort (the efforts that he did make
were along the lines of obfuscating the issue, thus helping convince
everyone that the weapons did exist) can only mean that he was
convinced that he had them and couldn't conceal them.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
Simon, you are conflating two ideas here. I remember no such
statement, at least not by Bush or Powell, to the effect that Saddam
could attack us with WMDs in 45 minutes.

45 minutes was a central part of Tony Blair's war sales pitch to the UK
populace.

Si

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
Saddam had at least five months to convince people that he had no such
weapons. That he made no such effort (the efforts that he did make
were along the lines of obfuscating the issue, thus helping convince
everyone that the weapons did exist) can only mean that he was
convinced that he had them and couldn't conceal them.

The situation could be read that way, but Iraq had been maintaining publicly
that they had no such weapons, and in the end they didn't. Saddam
manouvered himself into a corner, for sure. On the one hand complying with
the UN and (apparently) disposing of all his remaining materials yet
muddying the waters enough to let his neighbours know he might still have
some. A gamble on his part that didn't pay off. Obviously much of the
quantity Iraq admitted to having at the end of '91 hasn't been found, but
whether it was down to bad accounting, poor stock-taking, saber-rattling or
conceilment isn't clear. However, I agree that considering it appears
Hussein was largely kept in the dark regarding a lot of other issues in fear
of him, it's certainly a possibility he wasn't in the picture regarding his
WMD capability either.

Si

In article ,
(Charles Gray) wrote:
snip
Well said! At last someone who can actually see the wood for the trees.