VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION

"Vince" wrote in message
...
Jack Linthicum wrote:
On May 3, 4:12 pm, Paul Elliot wrote:
Vince wrote:

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/

Vince is a lawyer, he thinks that if he says the same wrong thing over
and over that will eventually make it true or the listeners will be
asleep. The Air Force Cross given Major Anderson must have been a real
goof by the Air Force and Kennedy.

http://cworld.clemson.edu/Fall2000/12thday.htm


There is nothing that prevents the president from giving a medal to an air
force officer flying for the CIA

He was unquestionably engaged in an activity that was a violation of
international law. He could not have been "ordered" on the mission.

Vince

What was he in violation of, specifically?

AHS

"Vince" wrote in message
...
TMOliver wrote:
"Vince" wrote ...

Spies get shot at all the time
Doesn't make it a "battlefield"
they were CIA flights

I guess they forgot to tell you that those VFP-62 pilots were in Navy
flight
suits flying USNavy a/c - big bright stars and all - out of NAS Key
West,
JAX or off CVA decks.

TMO


the U-2 flights were cia

No, Vince, they were Air Force. Although the data collected is "share" with
the CIA and other branches of the Government.

"TMOliver" wrote in message
...

"Tex Houston" wrote in message
...

"TMOliver" wrote in message
...
As late as 1957, there may have been a couple of TB-25s around for
station "hack" service in the Training Command, and B-26s (NA, Not
Martin), were still in ANG service (and used by the CIA/Cuban force
strikes connected with the Bay of Pigs), but you're going to have to
"show" us P-38s somewhere other than in your agaonized dreams before
anybody will believe you...

If by NA you mean North American you might consider how DOUGLAS would
feel.

I apologize for the brain fart. There's one of the last of them still
flying sitting in a hangar just across the lake about 3 miles away.

I'd appreciate your guess as to the last P-38 service date.

What has been shown is that there are "Conflicting" reports of the actual
date.

The dates given by the Air Force Records might not be correct. I use the
C-124 as an example where there may be a condition that won't allow you to
take it out of service even though it's past the "Official" retirement date.
The Records show that the last C-124 was boneyarded in 1974 yet in 1974 we
did a flight down to DM with an out of time C-124, stripped it, rebuilt one
that still had airframe time and flew it back to Elmendorf. As late as 1975
there were two Shakeys still flying out of Anchorage with only one mission.
They resupplied Radar Sites on the Aleutians (sp). And they were the only
AC in the inventory that you could drive an 8 wheeled fire engine onboard
and deliver it on a Gravel or Crushed Rock runway.

We lost one at one of the sites. The runway was very, very short, angled up
and had a sheer drop-off into the ocean or channel (depending what you wish
to call it). The Runway was covered with gravel and crushed rock. Here is
the story that the Flight Engineer told. (not verbatim)

quote
We were landing when we hit a wind sheer just before touchdown. It forced
us down. We crash landed. The bird skidded to a stop with it's landing
gears sheared off. We all stood next to the Aircraft. The pilot asked me,
"Don't you think you should shut the engines off?". All 4 were still
turning with just the stubs of the propellers left. unquote

Now for the rest of the story. Luckily the old shakey veered off the runway
and allowed us to come in with a C-130 and Maint Crews. We stripped the
good stuff and the engines off the crashed bird. Then they shoved the bird
off the edge of the runway into the Ocean with a D-9 Cat. On the Herky
Pig, we took off with 4 but landed back in Elmendorf with 3 a churnin. We
Hoovered their runway on either the way in or the way out or probably both.
That equipment we stripped off the stricken bird was taken back to DM and
another one was built up and flown back. I don't know of ANY AC that could
have had that type of crash and everyone walk away from and still have all 4
turning. Ask about the time (I wasn't there for this one) that the C-124
ditched in the Inlet and what they had to sink the danged thing.

The point is, the "Official" records show the C-124 was completely taken out
of service by 1974 yet those two flew years afterwards since nothing could
replace them without FODing out engines.

"Arved Sandstrom" wrote in message
news:h2t_h.1584$Vi6.1305@edtnps82...
"Vince" wrote in message
...
Jack Linthicum wrote:
On May 3, 4:12 pm, Paul Elliot wrote:
Vince wrote:

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/

Vince is a lawyer, he thinks that if he says the same wrong thing over
and over that will eventually make it true or the listeners will be
asleep. The Air Force Cross given Major Anderson must have been a real
goof by the Air Force and Kennedy.

http://cworld.clemson.edu/Fall2000/12thday.htm


There is nothing that prevents the president from giving a medal to an
air
force officer flying for the CIA

He was unquestionably engaged in an activity that was a violation of
international law. He could not have been "ordered" on the mission.

Vince

What was he in violation of, specifically?

In the Recon world, if you ain't caught you ain't guilty of a damned thing.

"Vince" wrote in message
...
[ SNIP ]
The hostility of the environment is clear. However Reconnaissance in an
environment where you cannot openly protect your aircraft and are not
establishing targets is not a battlefield.

Vince

???

That makes no sense.

AHS

Arved Sandstrom wrote:
"Vince" wrote in message
...
Jack Linthicum wrote:
On May 3, 4:12 pm, Paul Elliot wrote:
Vince wrote: http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/
Vince is a lawyer, he thinks that if he says the same wrong thing
over and over that will eventually make it true or the listeners
will be asleep. The Air Force Cross given Major Anderson must
have been a real goof by the Air Force and Kennedy.

http://cworld.clemson.edu/Fall2000/12thday.htm

There is nothing that prevents the president from giving a medal to
an air force officer flying for the CIA

He was unquestionably engaged in an activity that was a violation
of international law. He could not have been "ordered" on the
mission.

Vince

What was he in violation of, specifically?

AHS

Cuban sovereign airspace

Vince

"TMOliver" wrote in message
...
As for the RB-66's use in combat photo recon, the bird performed didn't
last long in that role (just as it had not done well as a bomber),
replaced quickly by far more survivable RF4s. The RB-66 was unsuited for
low level battlefield recon, too slow (and to the air crew who flew them
sharing with the A3 and EA3s the dicey escape method, down, instead of
the more conventional upward ejection). The RB-57s were developed to do
what the RB-66 did, while the Navy's last version of a similar a/c, the
EA3, flew on for many years, longer than the attempt to salvage the Navy's
A-5 program with the RA5C.

TMO
Which model A3 had ejection seats?

Tex

Arved Sandstrom wrote:
"Vince" wrote in message
...
[ SNIP ]
The hostility of the environment is clear. However Reconnaissance in an
environment where you cannot openly protect your aircraft and are not
establishing targets is not a battlefield.

Vince

???

That makes no sense.

AHS



A firing squad is a dangerous place but its not a "battlefield"


Vince

"TMOliver" wrote in message
...
I'd appreciate your guess as to the last P-38 service date.

TMO
Anything I would venture would indeed be a guess. I think early as I never
saw one fly until 1976 (Lefty Gardner's "White Lightning").

Tex

"Tex Houston" wrote in message
.. .

"TMOliver" wrote in message
...
As for the RB-66's use in combat photo recon, the bird performed didn't
last long in that role (just as it had not done well as a bomber),
replaced quickly by far more survivable RF4s. The RB-66 was unsuited
for
low level battlefield recon, too slow (and to the air crew who flew them
sharing with the A3 and EA3s the dicey escape method, down, instead of
the more conventional upward ejection). The RB-57s were developed to do
what the RB-66 did, while the Navy's last version of a similar a/c, the
EA3, flew on for many years, longer than the attempt to salvage the
Navy's
A-5 program with the RA5C.

TMO
Which model A3 had ejection seats?

Only USAF's B-66s